mad_pete Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Thinking of upgrading my ms1 to ms3. I can't really justify it but I don't think that will stop me. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 And your question is? It sounds pretty complicated to me - what are you aiming to gain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 well, going from MS1 to MS3 gets you 2 extra whatsits obviously 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 My gut feeling is that MS3 is where MS went from DIY friendly to almost pro-product. Problem is when you compare to other offerings that are not *that* much more money, the competition has it IMHO. e.g. https://store.haltech.com/exportstore/universal-ecu-kits/elite-550/ht-150600-elite-750-ecu-only-1.html vs https://www.diyautotune.com/product/megasquirt-iii-ems-system-with-ms3x-expansion-v3-57-assembled/ Then you need to add the loom to it, so about the same. The Haltech loom has much nice plugs, and the ECUs are waterproof... It was always going to happen of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_pete Posted July 31, 2017 Author Share Posted July 31, 2017 Just looking to see if anyone has done it as the base board is the same and run a thread to report how it goes. I like the idea of ditching the serial port for USB, more finer maps and logging without the laptop. I already have ms1 in so the upgrade kit is $199 I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 I have Ms2 - which as far as i know has the same map size as Ms3. I hacked a cheap bluetooth adaptor and use my phone with MSDroid for logging/viewing and the odd tweak. The laptop only ever comes out now when i need to do a bit of VEAL or something more involved. Could be a good halfway house? My Ms2 definitely *feels* better than my Ms1 - but this could just be that I have spent a lot more time tuning it, as the Ms2 is on my daily. As long as the 90 (which has the Ms1) starts reliably, drives pretty well and doesn't do terribly on fuel that's fine for a weekend car. However - if you want to go Ms3 then do it! Its a thread I would definitely read, and sometimes the most fun things are the stuff you do just for the hell of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 MS2 does give many of the baseline advantages of MS3 (as in, things you might notice/use on a lowly Rover V8) in that it gives much higher resolution of pulsewidths and the like, plus bigger tables, although whether you can really detect that whilst driving I'm not so sure. What MS3 usefully adds to a RV8 setup over an MS2 is harder, the datalogging direct to SD is nice enough but a Pi Zero could do that for £10. By all means go for it and let us know though, it might be brilliant. I don't have the time to faff with the MS1 as it stands, never mind adding more features! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodumatau Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 On 1August, 2017 at 12:54 PM, FridgeFreezer said: MS2 does give many of the baseline advantages of MS3 (as in, things you might notice/use on a lowly Rover V8) in that it gives much higher resolution of pulsewidths and the like, plus bigger tables, although whether you can really detect that whilst driving I'm not so sure. What MS3 usefully adds to a RV8 setup over an MS2 is harder, the datalogging direct to SD is nice enough but a Pi Zero could do that for £10. By all means go for it and let us know though, it might be brilliant. I don't have the time to faff with the MS1 as it stands, never mind adding more features! fridge is there a build thread for adding a Pi Zero to a MS1 system? do i understand correctly that you can then get rid of your serial connection and connect via wifi to your MS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 No build thread, I was literally thinking of connecting it via serial and writing a very basic Python script to continually log data form the MS to a file, should take all of 5 lines of code. You can get bluetooth serial adapters, serial over wifi might be a bit more involved. ESP8266 wifi modules are cheap & plentiful & very popular, might be an idea... someone might even have done it already, who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_pete Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share Posted October 21, 2018 So not the fastest moving project, have found someone that has a ms3 that they aren’t going to put on theirs now. I’ve borrowed it see if I can get somewhere without massive work changing things . Any suggestions on a fair price for built ms3 with driver board, ls2 wideband and some of the wires and sensors would be please ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_pete Posted November 10, 2018 Author Share Posted November 10, 2018 Ok game on. Map transfer begins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laptom Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 And how is this project going to? I'm thinking of upgrading from MS1 to MS3 at my 3.5 to 4.6 swap. I want the direct drivers to the ignition and get rid of the EDIS module. I know it is reliable, but would like to have as less components as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_pete Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 I’m working through the screens and getting familiar with the settings and I’ve exported my ms1 fuel and spark maps. I’ll start posting the screens and share my reasoning on the settings. I want to support edis and standard fuelling get it working and then swap those parts out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=jon= Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Subscribing. I've got MS2 + EDIS at the moment on the 3.5, with a BLOS LPG gas carb. On gas there's a second spark map and a zero'd out fuel map. When the 4.6 goes in I'm going to swap to multi-point gas - although I'll use an LPG ECU to drive that, MS3 supports a different AFR target on the second map, so I should be able to run full closed loop fuelling and get a bit more economy out of it.. I've got MS3 on my turbo'd MX5 already, so know my way round the settings reasonably well already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_pete Posted December 25, 2018 Author Share Posted December 25, 2018 I’ve been looking at the loom and come to the conclusion the current one is not all ideal so I’m going to see if I can get one made up by Shaun from ms2tuning. Also I need so spark driver so choice is get some drivers, use vw coil packs or second hand ls2s coil on plug from US. The ms1 is behind drivers seat and I need to work out how to run it forwards. I like to the loom safe but maybe a bit neater. How have others run theirs? The loam part from the Range Rover definitely needs to go I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 On 11/19/2018 at 2:16 PM, Laptom said: I'm thinking of upgrading from MS1 to MS3 at my 3.5 to 4.6 swap. I want the direct drivers to the ignition and get rid of the EDIS module. I know it is reliable, but would like to have as less components as possible. Those are two different things - MS1 can run ignition coils direct too with mods. Putting ignition drive inside the ECU can be a problem for interference/back-EMF as you're introducing large voltage & current spikes near sensitive electronics, that's partly why the EDIS is a nice solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_pete Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 Seems I would need to swap to VW coils and leads to get s 5v input. Anyone know what the part numbers are for the VW coils and leads please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 1 hour ago, mad_pete said: Seems I would need to swap to VW coils and leads to get s 5v input. Anyone know what the part numbers are for the VW coils and leads please? Why ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_pete Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 MS3 to drive without edis needs a different input voltage. Looks like the megasquirt v8 shop lists them as VWs Audi Skodas etc P/Ns : 032905106E 032905106B etc and some brackets and leads maybe I’m going shopping when it re opens Monday. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 MS3 is the same as MS1 in that it has a series of spark outputs that all OUTPUT 5v. EDIS is an automated coil driver controller, it has 4 built in coil drivers and a circuit that reads the crank signal to power the coil drivers at the correct time. You can use coils with built in drivers such as the VW ones or LSx ones or you can use external drivers with your existing coils to convert the 5v signal from the MS ECU into a spark, typically you use a BIP373 for each coil and use your existing coils. Your choice really, depends on your budget and requirements - you can get 4 x BIP373 for less than £20, mount them in there own box near the coils and it's no different to EDIS or new coils. I use an Aluminium box to house mine, the box acts as a heatsink and also screens any electrical interference. The wiring details are available in the MS documentation. The VW option is very good, just not the cheapest and means new ht leads etc... I use this setup with standard RV8 coil packs so I can use "off the shelf" HT leads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazza Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 21 minutes ago, Dave W said: ... typically you use a BIP373 for each coil and use your existing coils.... What is a BIP373? Cheers Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Chazza said: What is a BIP373? Cheers Charlie It's a coil driver, allows you to fire an ignition coil from a 5v logic signal. It's been developed by Bosch and has all sorts of safeguards to try and prevent it getting damaged due to misuse/bad configuration with over temperature protection, current limiting and so on. You take the input 5v high for the dwell period and the coil fires when you drop the input to 0v.https://secu-3.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/pdf/bip373_datasheet.pdf If I had to hazard a guess I'd suspect that most of the current combined coil and driver offerings use this device, it's a lot more robust than the older VB921 we used to use as a coil driver. You connect the base (B) pin through a resistor to the MS ECU spark output, emitter (E) to vehicle earth and the collector (C) to the coil -ve. The other side of the coil is connected to ignition 12v. One thing you do have to watch though is that the collector is connected to the metal tab/heatsink so when you bolt it to a metal surface you need to make sure it's insulated, normally using a mica insulation kit. There are a number of places selling them in the UK and US or you can get a pack of 5 from aliexpress for under £10 if you're prepared to wait:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/BIP373-TO220-Series-250-V-16A-Bipolar-Triple-Stage-Automotive-Ignition-Driver-30115/1132722921.html Edited June 16, 2019 by Dave W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 BIP373: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143070295540 Although TBH the coils with built-in ignitors are a far nicer prospect as the ECU only needs low level 5v trigger outputs rather than handling all the high currents & associated noise and spikes that goes with direct coil drivers. Bosch do make some external coil driver modules for certain models and motorsport, they're another way. Whatever you do, if your ECU is currently built for EDIS it'll need internal mods to suit your chosen setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazza Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 Thank you Dave a most informative post! Cheers Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_pete Posted June 19, 2019 Author Share Posted June 19, 2019 Thinking about moving the coil packs to the back of the engine but I do have dreams of squeezing a v8 110 air box in there. I see a lot of people running at the front but Land Rover went with the back didn’t they ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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