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mad_pete

Ms1 to ms3 upgrade

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Thinking of upgrading my ms1 to ms3. I can't really justify it but I don't think that will stop me. :-)

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And your question is? :huh:

It sounds pretty complicated to me - what are you aiming to gain?

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well, going from MS1 to MS3 gets you 2 extra whatsits obviously :lol::ph34r:

  • Haha 1

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My gut feeling is that MS3 is where MS went from DIY friendly to almost pro-product. Problem is when you compare to other offerings that are not *that* much more money, the competition has it IMHO.

e.g. https://store.haltech.com/exportstore/universal-ecu-kits/elite-550/ht-150600-elite-750-ecu-only-1.html

vs

https://www.diyautotune.com/product/megasquirt-iii-ems-system-with-ms3x-expansion-v3-57-assembled/

Then you need to add the loom to it, so about the same. The Haltech loom has much nice plugs, and the ECUs are waterproof...

It was always going to happen of course.

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Just looking to see if anyone has done it as the base board is the same and run a thread to report how it goes. I like the idea of ditching the serial port for USB, more finer maps and logging without the laptop. I already have ms1 in so the upgrade kit is $199 I think.

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I have Ms2 - which as far as i know has the same map size as Ms3. I hacked a cheap bluetooth adaptor and use my phone with MSDroid for logging/viewing and the odd tweak. 

The laptop only ever comes out now when i need to do a bit of VEAL or something more involved. Could be a good halfway house?

My Ms2 definitely *feels* better than my Ms1 - but this could just be that I have spent a lot more time tuning it, as the Ms2 is on my daily. As long as the 90 (which has the Ms1) starts reliably, drives pretty well and doesn't do terribly on fuel that's fine for a weekend car.

However - if you want to go Ms3 then do it! Its a thread I would definitely read, and sometimes the most fun things are the stuff you do just for the hell of it. :D

 

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MS2 does give many of the baseline advantages of MS3 (as in, things you might notice/use on a lowly Rover V8) in that it gives much higher resolution of pulsewidths and the like, plus bigger tables, although whether you can really detect that whilst driving I'm not so sure.

What MS3 usefully adds to a RV8 setup over an MS2 is harder, the datalogging direct to SD is nice enough but a Pi Zero could do that for £10.

By all means go for it and let us know though, it might be brilliant.

I don't have the time to faff with the MS1 as it stands, never mind adding more features! :ph34r:

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On 1August, 2017 at 12:54 PM, FridgeFreezer said:

MS2 does give many of the baseline advantages of MS3 (as in, things you might notice/use on a lowly Rover V8) in that it gives much higher resolution of pulsewidths and the like, plus bigger tables, although whether you can really detect that whilst driving I'm not so sure.

What MS3 usefully adds to a RV8 setup over an MS2 is harder, the datalogging direct to SD is nice enough but a Pi Zero could do that for £10.

By all means go for it and let us know though, it might be brilliant.

I don't have the time to faff with the MS1 as it stands, never mind adding more features! :ph34r:

fridge is there a build thread for adding a Pi Zero to a MS1 system? do i understand correctly that you can then get rid of your serial connection and connect via wifi to your MS? 

 

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No build thread, I was literally thinking of connecting it via serial and writing a very basic Python script to continually log data form the MS to a file, should take all of 5 lines of code.

You can get bluetooth serial adapters, serial over wifi might be a bit more involved. ESP8266 wifi modules are cheap & plentiful & very popular, might be an idea... someone might even have done it already, who knows.

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So not the fastest moving project, have found someone that has a ms3 that they aren’t going to put on theirs now. I’ve borrowed it see if I can get somewhere without massive work changing things . Any suggestions on a fair price for built ms3 with driver board, ls2 wideband and some of the wires and sensors would be please ?  

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And how is this project going to?

I'm thinking of upgrading from MS1 to MS3 at my 3.5 to 4.6 swap. I want the direct drivers to the ignition and get rid of the EDIS module. I know it is reliable, but would like to have as less components as possible.

 

 

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I’m working through the screens and getting familiar with the settings and I’ve exported my ms1 fuel and spark maps. I’ll start posting the screens and share my reasoning on the settings. I want to support edis and standard fuelling get it working and then swap those parts out. 

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Subscribing.

I've got MS2 + EDIS at the moment on the 3.5, with a BLOS LPG gas carb. On gas there's a second spark map and a zero'd out fuel map.

When the 4.6 goes in I'm going to swap to multi-point gas - although I'll use an LPG ECU to drive that, MS3 supports a different AFR target on the second map, so I should be able to run full closed loop fuelling and get a bit more economy out of it.. 

I've got MS3 on my turbo'd MX5 already, so know my way round the settings reasonably well already :)

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I’ve been looking at the loom and come to the conclusion the current one is not all ideal so I’m going to see if I can get one made up by Shaun from ms2tuning. Also I need so spark driver so choice is get some drivers, use vw coil packs or second hand ls2s coil on plug from US.

The ms1 is behind drivers seat and I need to work out how to run it forwards. I like to the loom safe but maybe a bit neater. How have others run theirs?

 

The loam part from the Range Rover definitely needs to go I think.

 

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On 11/19/2018 at 2:16 PM, Laptom said:

I'm thinking of upgrading from MS1 to MS3 at my 3.5 to 4.6 swap. I want the direct drivers to the ignition and get rid of the EDIS module. I know it is reliable, but would like to have as less components as possible.

Those are two different things - MS1 can run ignition coils direct too with mods. Putting ignition drive inside the ECU can be a problem for interference/back-EMF as you're introducing large voltage & current spikes near sensitive electronics, that's partly why the EDIS is a nice solution.

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Seems I would need to swap to VW coils and leads to get s 5v input. Anyone know what the part numbers are for the VW coils and leads please?

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1 hour ago, mad_pete said:

Seems I would need to swap to VW coils and leads to get s 5v input. Anyone know what the part numbers are for the VW coils and leads please?

Why ?

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MS3 to drive without edis needs a different input voltage. Looks like the megasquirt v8 shop lists them as VWs Audi Skodas etc P/Ns : 032905106E 032905106B etc 

and some brackets and leads maybe I’m going shopping when it re opens Monday. 🙂

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MS3 is the same as MS1 in that it has a series of spark outputs that all OUTPUT 5v.

EDIS is an automated coil driver controller, it has 4 built in coil drivers and a circuit that reads the crank signal to power the coil drivers at the correct time.

You can use coils with built in drivers such as the VW ones or LSx ones or you can use external drivers with your existing coils to convert the 5v signal from the MS ECU into a spark, typically you use a BIP373 for each coil and use your existing coils.

Your choice really, depends on your budget and requirements - you can get 4 x BIP373 for less than £20, mount them in there own box near the coils and it's no different to EDIS or new coils. I use an Aluminium box to house mine, the box acts as a heatsink and also screens any electrical interference. The wiring details are available in the MS documentation. The VW option is very good, just not the cheapest and means new ht leads etc... I use this setup with standard RV8 coil packs so I can use "off the shelf" HT leads.

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21 minutes ago, Dave W said:

... typically you use a BIP373 for each coil and use your existing coils....

What is a BIP373?

Cheers Charlie

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2 hours ago, Chazza said:

What is a BIP373?

Cheers Charlie

It's a coil driver, allows you to fire an ignition coil from a 5v logic signal. It's been developed by Bosch and has all sorts of safeguards to try and prevent it getting damaged due to misuse/bad configuration with over temperature protection, current limiting and so on. You take the input 5v high for the dwell period and the coil fires when you drop the input to 0v.
https://secu-3.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/pdf/bip373_datasheet.pdf

If I had to hazard a guess I'd suspect that most of the current combined coil and driver offerings use this device, it's a lot more robust than the older VB921 we used to use as a coil driver.

You connect the base (B) pin through a resistor to the MS ECU spark output, emitter (E) to vehicle earth and the collector (C) to the coil -ve. The other side of the coil is connected to ignition 12v. 

One thing you do have to watch though is that the collector is connected to the metal tab/heatsink so when you bolt it to a metal surface you need to make sure it's insulated, normally using a mica insulation kit.

There are a number of places selling them in the UK and US or you can get a pack of 5 from aliexpress for under £10 if you're prepared to wait:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/BIP373-TO220-Series-250-V-16A-Bipolar-Triple-Stage-Automotive-Ignition-Driver-30115/1132722921.html

 

Edited by Dave W

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