Calling all 109 owners!

[Bilbo9000]

Firstly I do already own a Land Rover. It's a 1972 bronze green 2.25 petrol 88" hardtop with a pickup cab on it. However like many Land Rover owners, I have owned this vehicle for 11 years but only driven it for 2 and even though it had a big set of mud tyres on it, all of that use was on the road commuting to work and back. That was seven years ago now, since last drove it due to extra holes in the already heavily patched up chassis causing it to fail it's mot. Although this year I've finally got around to cutting it out of the hedge that grew around it and is now locked up in the dry with a new Richards chassis, so much stuff has perished away or seized over the years outside that the rest of the rebuilt is going to take a long time. 

The problem with this is that finally starting this rebuild has me all interested in Land Rovers once again and wanting one sooner than I am ever going to get mine finished. But no matter how much I think about it I still don't know what Land Rover it is I want.

I do know a couple of things I do want though. Firstly after being interested in Land Rovers for so long but never taking mine off the tarmac I want to use my next one. Although unlikely to ever go to much in the way of pay and play days, me and the wife would be interested in getting into some responsible green laning. So once we have a vehicle I plan on joining GLASS and then either joining or organising some weekend laning and camping trips around England and Wales. But on top of this would like to use it at least a few times a week to work and back (60 miles a day) so people don't see it always left on the drive.

I also know that I want a LWB this time. As much as I love the looks of my 88" and I'm sure some people have done, I never could get that much in the back of it or use it for picking up anything large. Want to be able to chuck big parts for my other projects in the back, whether it be large tooling, new axles or engines when they need to go to the machine shop. It needs to earn it's keep. For this reason I also THINK it wants to be a pick up and maybe even a hi-cap.

What I really don't know though is if it should be a 109" or 110 Defender. I love the look and and idea of a Series, I think it might be what I want but my brain says I should get a Defender instead.

So my question is probably for the 109" Series owners out there and it is "How often do you wish you were driving a 110 instead?" (or rather you think I will wish)

I'm looking for things like:

• Do they hit their limits or cause extra hassle on legal green lanes? Things like always having to make multi-point turns where the 110s go round in one or struggling with climbs due to wheel hop that the defender in front didn't have.
• Do you think that they cause more damage to the roads? When watching videos I always see a lot more wheel spin from Series vehicles bouncing about looking for traction.
• Fatigue. Do you feel you struggle to keep up as the day gets on? (I do sometimes get lower back issues)

I really want a 109 now, but I don't want to regret buying one.

Thanks.

[Gazzar]

I've a LWB. I don't think I've met a limitation that a defender would overcome, though I don't do much off road work. Better engines, better heaters and sound proofing aren't series specific problems. 

No doubt about defender can go slightly further before it gets stuck, but not much more, and it is quite a bit wider than a LWB, which can count.

As for fatigue, that's just noise, and the quality of the seat. Late series and early 110s share the same seats. 

G.

[Dave W]

All the 109s I've seen have the turning circle of an oil tanker when compared to a 110. Whilst being narrower can be a benefit the huge turning circle and the lack of power steering make them really numb things to drive on road or off. It's not something I really noticed too much on my 88 but on the 109 it's a major issue for day to day use.

Series vehicles certainly have a character of their own but having driven both extensively I know which one I would go for and it has power steering and coil sprung suspension !

 

[Snagger]

Fitting PAS to a Series is easy enough and gives a very light feel if you use a P38 box.  The ride of my 109 on HD parabolics was far less harsh than that of my low mileage 2009 90 XS.  

The biggest differences between Series and Defenders were road speed and noise levels.

[FridgeFreezer]

On 29/08/2017 at 8:04 PM, Bilbo9000 said:

So my question is probably for the 109" Series owners out there and it is "How often do you wish you were driving a 110 instead?" (or rather you think I will wish)

I'm looking for things like:

• Do they hit their limits or cause extra hassle on legal green lanes? Things like always having to make multi-point turns where the 110s go round in one or struggling with climbs due to wheel hop that the defender in front didn't have.
• Do you think that they cause more damage to the roads? When watching videos I always see a lot more wheel spin from Series vehicles bouncing about looking for traction.
• Fatigue. Do you feel you struggle to keep up as the day gets on? (I do sometimes get lower back issues)

I really want a 109 now, but I don't want to regret buying one.

I never wish I was driving a 110. If you know what the 88 is like, a 109 will/should ride a bit better and need slightly more space to turn around in.

Unless your springs are seized up, Series are very capable and a Series should fairly well match a Defender for most things.

Damage is down to the driver. Maybe you're watching bog standard Series struggling a bit to match Defenders with better tyres, more clearance or whatever, very hard to say. There's not much between a 109 and a 110, the 110 has a bit more suspension travel and usually has more power (again, as standard). The open centre diff can help in some situations but it's marginal.

Fatigue, well, you can make a Series more comfy but the Defender will (as standard like-for-like) ride softer, be a (little) bit quieter, have power steering, disc brakes, 5-speeds, and a comfier seat. Depends what you want / are willing to put up with.

Good parabolics and a set of good shocks will make a Series ride very similarly to a Defender on HD springs.

If you think you'd want to change things on a Series to be more Defender-like (PAS, engine swap, higher gearing, better brakes, etc.) then you may as well buy a Defender with the setup as standard. Might also make a difference as to what your wife's tolerance level is for all this & whether she'd expect to drive it.

The Series will be harder work in stop/start traffic and likely (if it's standard) slower on the motorway. Off-road the lack of PAS and brakes make for harder work but it's character building and just requires superior skill

I think these days there's almost no price difference etc. so unless you really want a standard Series you may as well buy a Defender and have the better bits as standard.

[Daan]

The series is more beautiful though. From the outside, it is a series no question to me. Inside, a defender is much better. Why not combine the 2 and build a Hybrid?

 

Daan

[ejparrott]

I never wish my 109 was a 110, ever.  I don't offroad mine, I use the 88 for that, but I have been around many 109's and the PO of mine used to take it laning - it actually snapped it's timing belt on Devils Staircase, had to be rescued by a 90 pulling and a 110 pushing!  I've upgraded to a TDi and have fitted power steering, and an LT77, so it's much nicer to drive than it used to be, however a decent rebuild would have took care of the gearbox...the steering I rebuilt 3 times before giving up on it.  I had a friends in for rebuild for a while and the steering on that was beautifully light, mine I could never get nice

[FridgeFreezer]

To be fair no 109 ever left the factory with a timing belt

[Bilbo9000]

On 02/09/2017 at 6:31 PM, Daan said:

The series is more beautiful though. From the outside, it is a series no question to me. Inside, a defender is much better. Why not combine the 2 and build a Hybrid?

Because my version of "building" something, normally involves taking all the donor vehicles apart really quick and then spending years drinking tea while looking at the pile thinking about putting it all back together. It's gonna have to be ready to run, no work required (maintenance excluded) on this one, so building something perfect for me is out of the question.