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Series swb 5 Speed Conversion - Help


Cliffordtdi

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Hi All,

My apologies I'm a newbie on here!!

I have a swb series 3 with a disco 200tdi in it, with a poorly gearbox (the box wasn't great before the tdi).

I'm considering an LT77 with an Ashcroft series transfer case adaptor, or having the standard series box rebuilt by Whitehouse Transmissions with series 3 suffix D internals. What do people think from their experiences?

If the LT77 is the best option then:-

  1. What are they like? - Is it worth the effort?
  2. How much do I need to mod the chassis and are there an options on how?
  3. Will any chassis mods mean losing DVLA points thus rendering it a Q plate? Or are the clever mods to bypass this?
  4. I know I would need to mod the prop lengths, but do the UJ's cope with the shorter length - I'm running Rocky Mountain Parras

Sorry if this has been covered before but I'm at a bit of a loss

Any help will be greatly appreciated 

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5 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

The LT77-to-series conversion is spendy compared to just fitting an LT230, only issue in an 88 is length.

A lot depends on what you want form it, what you use the truck for, how original it all is, etc.

Except for a tdi, parabolic,  front discs and a rear Salisbury it's pretty standard. 

It's a toy,  used on road, 4x4 sites,  laning and to tow with occasionally. 

I may have access to an Ashcroft conversion cheap. Is there much difference in length between a series transfer and an lt230? 

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Apparently, parabolic don't affect the VIN; they are regarded as an in service replacement of wearable parts.  The suspension points for the VIN exclude wearing parts such as springs, dampers and bushes.  That is pretty much all we have for suspension, with no rods, arms, struts and such, but those are the rules.  So, you should have enough points not to be a problem.  Swapping the rear axle will have cost you both points for axles, though.

I contacted the DVLA a few days ago about the whole points thing, because I'd like to do something similar to your transmission mod, and wasn't sure about my interpretation of their registration guide ( https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration ).  It would be tested for IVA under a radically altered vehicle or an amateur built vehicle scheme.  The former is for professional rebuilds and includes several very costly tests.  The latter is advantageous to us as there are no tests other than the basic inspection, but we have to be able to show that we built the vehicles ourselves and for our own use.  This is in the response from the inspector.  More of concern is the comment that the IVA is performed and then they decide on the points awarded (seems logical), but the wording in the guide and the letter I got strongly suggest IVA is mandatory for all modified vehicles, regardless of whether we have worked out we keep the 8 points required.  I'm awaiting confirmation of that.  It might be a rule change, or it might be a clarification of an oft misunderstood rule - I don't know.

Your spec is much like mine, except I have gone PAS, so lost the steering points.  You have more wiggle room with the original steering, so should still qualify for the original VIN.  It's not the end of the world registering from new, but it is a shame for those with tax exemption to lose that (you would if under 8 points).  I didn't get a clarification about road tax band and the registration date, but literal interpretation suggests that we'd be paying on emissions bands on a new registration, which looks like it could be very punitive with a Tdi.  I hope that is not how it works.

As for the LT77 and LT230, it'll be a stronger, quieter and less leaky combination than the standard transmission, and it can be fitted without major chassis alteration.  Those who have fitted it are all very pleased with it.  Brackets and mountings are not considered major chassis structures and the DVLA aren't concerned about them.  It's wheel base length and cross member removal that loses the VIN.

 

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My 88 has a Salisbury diff too, and an LT77/LT230. I could use the same shortened rear propshaft as before with the Series TC.

Very happy with this combination.  I converted the LT230 to part time 4WD to keep the drive train a bit like Land Rover designed it.

Kept the 4,7:1 diff's and installed a 1,003:1 ratio in the LT230. 5th gear is now a true overdrive. 

 

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My SWB doesn't have a Tdi. There's a Ford V6 in there, but it does have a LT77/230 on the Series mounts in the chassis. Some homemade plates are between the transmissions and the mounting rubbers. The rear propshaft was the same as before. Front propshaft needed a 1" extension. LT77 is the short input shaft version.

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9 hours ago, Arjan said:

Interesting reading this.. I was always led to believe a SWB could not take a 200 Tdi & LT77 due to lack of space...

As long as you use the Defender (or 90/110) short LT77 or R380, it's fine.  Tight, with the standard front body panels, but it works.

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23 hours ago, Snagger said:

 At worst, you might need to notch the bell housing cross member for the front prop shaft.

I used a small diameter front propshaft from a Discovery. Lots of clearance. I hate cutting into that 50+ year old chassis so this avoided another mutilation. I needed a 1/2" filler plate as the shaft was a bit short, added it at the TC side to improve clearance even a bit more.

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On 9/11/2017 at 4:55 PM, AV8R said:

I used a small diameter front propshaft from a Discovery. Lots of clearance. I hate cutting into that 50+ year old chassis so this avoided another mutilation. I needed a 1/2" filler plate as the shaft was a bit short, added it at the TC side to improve clearance even a bit more.

What Disco prop did you use AV8R?

And what rear props have people used? Double cardon wide angle on the rear?

Does anyone know which gives the shortest conversion out of an LT77 and LT230, or a LT77 with Ashcroft adapter onto a Series transfer box?

 

And which requires the least chassis modification?

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Standard series rear prop cut down to suit.

Cant remember the difference in lengths now. I used to know but it was a long time ago. 

Amount of chassis mods depends on how you want to do things. I removed the series gearbox mount crossmember comepletely and used the defender mounts. The bell housing crossmember needs more modification for front prop clearance. I cut out the series one, and used a discovery one welded in its place. The disco one is slimmer, but much heavier duty. Series ones bend too easily anyway....,

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 14-9-2017 at 2:52 PM, Cliffordtdi said:

What Disco prop did you use AV8R?

I was mistaken, front propshaft I use is from a Range Rover Classic, automatic transmission, 3,9 or 4,2 liter with catalitic converters. Apparently there is so much stuff in that engine bay LR opted for the smaller diameter propshaft. Lots of clearance for my situation.

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Worth every penny, sorry for the late input. The ashcroft conversion is slick and easy to install, well made etc.

The lt77 is the desperately needed strengthener in the weak drivechain for turbodiesel conversions, as the series transfer box is vertually nukeproof. The beauty of this set up is that you can get real economy when the conversion is done, and its so much less heartache than the lt230 setup. In classic landys you retain the coloured (colored) shifters in cab.

I know at least 3 people with this conversion and its definitely the way forward in my opinion.

I simply moved the original transfer mount crossmember 4 inches further rearward, made it removeable, and even rewelded the handbrake relay further back and just altered the operating angle. 

cheers.

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On 10/09/2017 at 5:06 PM, Snagger said:

Discomikey and Ed Parrot are the guys to ask, but I don't think so.  At worst, you might need to notch the bell housing cross member for the front prop shaft.

You also have to scallop the cross member where the bell housing meets the flywheel housing, because there is only about 1 mm clearance on the sticky out bit of the clutch housing. This touches its vibration city, cheers

Edited by Bandog
jimmy saville
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