tommobot Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 I've just done a clutch change on my 200tdi defender, don't remember removing an earth from the starter, but it clicks when turn the key and battery seems ok. Haven't tried hitting it with a stick yet.. Haynes manual suggests starter should be earthed to engine block? - some internet reading says this was not present to start with...? Never had any probelms starting pre clutch change. Since photobucket has shafted the interweb, does anyone have a photo of this area, as I've had a quick look but couldn't see any loose wires in the area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Starter motor is earthed to the engine block by its securing bolts, it doesn't need another earth connection, have a look at the existing wire connections, they might be dirty or loose & giving a poor connection. or the starter motor is worn out & needs replacing or refurbishing, also examine the existing earth cables, from battery to main gearbox/transfer box joint & from engine block to chassis part of left engine mounting, also ensure the power cable on battery is tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommobot Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 I've reattached the battery earth to the joint in the gearbox & to the chassis gearbox mount.. The wire from the battery had 2 earthing points so I think i've got that correct. I'll have a look at the battery cable and starter wiring this evening, the little stud at the rear of the starter does not need anything fixing to it then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommobot Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 I get exactly the same as this sound on turning the key.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Never had that before on a 200tdi, but had it plenty on Td5's, usually means the battery is caput or really low. I've got Veleo starter motors on mine and they do have an extra earth clamp and wire that goes from the top of the motor area to the engine block... see if I can find a picture. I can't find the obvious one. But as Ralph says it shouldn't matter, I'd be looking at other big connection point not tight or clean, I've also had weird starting issues from the -ve clamp not being completely tight on the terminal on the battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 My 200tdi does that occasionally but only for a second or two, then I switch off & start again with no problem. most likely a starter motor or solenoid fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Sounds like a low battery issue, however if you think it's lacking an earth path then a set of jump leads can be useful to clamp to block/starter and direct to the battery negative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommobot Posted September 20, 2017 Author Share Posted September 20, 2017 I got my jump starter thingy on the battery last night, and the starter kicked in a bit more and tried to turn the engine over. Not enough, but enough to make me think its a battery issue. I measured 12.4 accross the terminals which I thought would be sufficeint, but clearly not .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 That doesn't mean you're getting that at the starter when cranking, if you've got a poor connection, (resistor) somewhere in the line you will loose enough volts to cause you an issue at the starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommobot Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 So I charged the battery up last night, and tried to fire it in to life. Nothing. The only way I've managed to get it anywhere near starting is with the jump starter and a negative fixed to side bars on the chasis.. Which makes me again think dodgy earth. I'll dig out jump leads this evening, and as above fit 1 end to starter and other to negative. Do I need to go to a particular location on the starter, i.e the little stud (M8?) that sticks out from the rear that should have the earth on anyway? I hate electrics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 yup that would work. But don't just focalise on the negative cable... it could also be the positive cable, what kid of cables do you have, are they original potted type or are they crimped or modified screw clamps, certain battery clamps can deteriorate over time as water/air oxidises the clamped area of the actual wire terminal. Are the terminal on top of the solenoid nice and clean too? I have seen the screw clamps on the solenoid get stripped and not clamp properly as they are usually copper/copper plated of pretty softish material, doesn't take much for them to let go if they've been overnighted. Also you said you've charged the battery but can you properly rule it out, have you got access to another you could try... batteries can also be fickle friends, giving off lots of signs they are ok, but as soon as they are loaded up they don't give out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommobot Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 True to.. The terminals look pretty clean, and the wiring / clamps all looks fairly new~ish around the battery area. Unfortunatly it has RX8 seats in the front, and access to the positive terminal is tiddle poor at best and getting the battery clamp on there is a massive ball bag of a job to put it polietly. If I can't get it working with the starter earth, then seat will be out and I'll double check the connections on the positive end (Haven't removed any thing on this side as part of clutch change).. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommobot Posted September 22, 2017 Author Share Posted September 22, 2017 So, it appears it was simply the earth and a low battery combined. The earth chassis bolt was a bit rusty, replaced with new bolt and it instantly turned over! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Excellent result ! Mo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Good stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Always tricky when there's more than one else problem in the bag... glad you've got her fixed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommobot Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 Been going great past few months.. Then today, pulled into get fuel, got back in.. Nothing. No clicks, nothing when turned the key. Lights didn't dim either, which to me suggests duff starter??? Got a push start and was on my way again. Heaters just packed up yesterday, and now the starter aswell?.. great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Could be starter relay.... Or even ignition switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommobot Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 Is that one of the yellow ones above the transmission tunnel in the cabin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 yes, should be identified on the inside face of the fusebox cover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommobot Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 Haven't got the car or the fuse to hand, does anyone have a part number of the starter motor relay in question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 As far as I remember it is just a standard relay, nothing fancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommobot Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 Put new relay in.. lots of clicks but no start. Put a battery jumper on and still the same.. just lots of clicks. Thinking starter for sure. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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