Bandog Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Going to do some research into this, because the same concept as l.p.g. injection applies with hydrogen. I would guess that its cleaner and better than l.p.g. and cheaper using h20 and 12v to produce. I saw these things marketed a few years ago to gain mpg and clean up diesel burn, off to do me homework, cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandog Posted October 3, 2017 Author Share Posted October 3, 2017 want some! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Indeed... And hydrogen is very expensive to make, and even trickier to harvest and store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandog Posted October 3, 2017 Author Share Posted October 3, 2017 its only good for 1- Reducing emissions. 2-Reducing combustion temps. L.P.G. although burns hot, simultaneously provides a super cooling/charge cooling effect due to "Joule-Thomson" effect. This cools things down sufficiently to give a more oxygen rich mixture, and should reduce egts. Incidentally, when my 200tdi was running a leaner diesel mix (same boost though) if felt faster??? cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 A hydrogen fuel cell is a very, very different thing from just injecting some hydrogen to aid combustion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandog Posted October 4, 2017 Author Share Posted October 4, 2017 1 hour ago, elbekko said: A hydrogen fuel cell is a very, very different thing from just injecting some hydrogen to aid combustion. 12 hours ago, Bowie69 said: Indeed... And hydrogen is very expensive to make, and even trickier to harvest and store. www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqjn3mup1So guys no disrespect, but get with the program... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Hmm, I do know my GCSE chemistry, even if it was 25 years ago. I said above, that it is expensive to make -energy to break the molecules is not free, and very inefficient. If you plan on running it from your alternator, then that energy is not free either, the alternator is no more than 50% efficient, then you add in the losses from generating the hydrogen, and then efficiency of an internal combustion engine, as an energy source it is probably no more than 10% efficient. Like said above, snake oil. A fuel cell is a way of generating electricity from hydrogen, has nothing to do with burning hydrogen in an engine at all. Anyone referring to that contraption in the video as a fuel cell shouldn't be trusted! I dread to think how much power he is using to generate that very small amount of hydrogen. No matter how you put it, I do feel some what disrespected.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Bandog said: guys no disrespect, but get with the program... Well, I could get *very* unfriendly right about now, but let's not. Electrolysis is easy. And also rather inefficient. And you still only have hydrogen, not a fuel cell to use it with. Have a look here on the basics on how fuel cells work: http://americanhistory.si.edu/fuelcells/basics.htm What you're talking about is generating hydrogen from water, and then injecting it into the engine's air supply. It's been proven over many, many years that this idea is utter bull excrement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandog Posted October 4, 2017 Author Share Posted October 4, 2017 The HH0 cell on the video is very convincing. Those of us who have an imagination brain cell on active duty in the right hemisphere, might ponder on a larger, more efficient cell, lets say for arguments sake, the size of a l.p.g. gas tank, and make the positive contacts either out of silver plated steel or graphite or both combined 'could' produce enough HH0 to complement the diesel burn, like l.p.g, injection. If, and yes its a big if, there is not a huge current/voltage sink, making it non viable. If you don't try you dont find out anything. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) Feel free to try it out. Don't come crying when you inevitably realise you're a dumbass. Edited October 4, 2017 by elbekko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandog Posted October 4, 2017 Author Share Posted October 4, 2017 ha ha ha I just weed a bit, x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 You don't need to try it out if you know because of physics that it just can't work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandog Posted October 4, 2017 Author Share Posted October 4, 2017 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m1jx2euy2A As Mr Diesel himself was killed off, or really did fall of the back of a boat to England we will never know, as Mr Diesel intended his unit to run on peanut oil, I think the likes Mr J.P. Morgan, And Rockefeller really did not want this technology getting out way back then. Nothing has changed a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandog Posted October 4, 2017 Author Share Posted October 4, 2017 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Diesel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Ah so this thread is going to go THAT way is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Some discussion here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandog Posted October 4, 2017 Author Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) hee mo fo hee !! cheers. try repeating in front of a mirror, conspiracy FACT conspiracy FACT... "and many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, they will fight to protect it" Morpheus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-A7czATutw Edited October 4, 2017 by Bandog Morpheus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwakers Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 the person to invent a energy efficiant and practical hydrogen fuel cell wouldnt be making videos of it on youtube... He'd be a multi-billionaire and collecting his Nobel prize Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandog Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 When ever said anything about running completely. This thread was supposed to shed light on an alternative to l.p.g. injection, to clean up sooty emissions etc, you know the score. I can see it doing similar, for much less home made money. I know I aint spending silly dollars, I never do, defeats the object of the exercise, as £500 + can buy you a heap of derv. So why would something radical prompt such a witch hunt? Ad blu is the modern way, but its another money spinner, and not compatible with all engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 So major car and truck manufacturers spend billions putting AdBlue injection on vehicles to meet emissions standards and they could be using plain water all along? They're going to be very upset... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 I suppose it could make the exhaust emissions cleaner (reduce particulates) - but it will increase fuel consumption, so total carbon emissions will increase, and whether there's a net gain in local air quality I wouldn't like to say (even if there's a lower percentage of particulates in the exhaust gases, you're producing more of them to do the same work - so there may be no reduction in the overall quantity of particulates produced). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandog Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 no but they could use l.p.g could they not? How much ad blu do you see now on service station fourcourts? Heaps! When my boost gauge reads 5-10 psi, my black smoke virtually stops. Imagine if you will oxy/acetylene. When the acetylene is burning on its own, there is a yellow flame (just like the ones coming off my back on this forum from all the bloody flak) and heaps of sooty smoke. Pipe up the oxygen, and it burns blue with no sooty smoke. un burned fuel is inefficient, and smelly. Hence the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Your diesel will burn very nicely in pure oxygen too However, you'll need a hell of a lot of it and like the acetylene it'll burn seriously hot and probably destroy your engine... With LPG or hydrogen you're introducing another fuel, which either raises the combustion temperature or burns more evenly with the aim of achieving more complete combustion of the diesel. Which works - but it isn't a free lunch. You're adding complexity to the engine, and a dependency on an additional fuel source (if you're filling up with compressed gas) - which may be a trade off you're happy with. In the case of generating hydrogen from water on board you have to generate the energy to do this, and the basic physics involved at each stage means you finish up at a loss. Making hydrogen is very energy expensive - the main reason there's been little in the way of developing hydrogen fuelled vehicles (which are very clean) is that we haven't yet come up with an affordable and non-environmentally destructive way of generating the hydrogen, even at industrial scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandog Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, geoffbeaumont said: Your diesel will burn very nicely in pure oxygen too However, you'll need a hell of a lot of it and like the acetylene it'll burn seriously hot and probably destroy your engine... With LPG or hydrogen you're introducing another fuel, which either raises the combustion temperature or burns more evenly with the aim of achieving more complete combustion of the diesel. Which works - but it isn't a free lunch. You're adding complexity to the engine, and a dependency on an additional fuel source (if you're filling up with compressed gas) - which may be a trade off you're happy with. In the case of generating hydrogen from water on board you have to generate the energy to do this, and the basic physics involved at each stage means you finish up at a loss. Making hydrogen is very energy expensive - the main reason there's been little in the way of developing hydrogen fuelled vehicles (which are very clean) is that we haven't yet come up with an affordable and non-environmentally destructive way of generating the hydrogen, even at industrial scale. This is true, I was merely going down the road of "complementary" I have decided to go down the l.p.g. route. Its easier. My comparison with oxy/acetylene was comparison, you took me literally. The cooling effect of the expanded gas has a supercooling effect too, like a bigger intercooler, lowering egts. So less boost, less smoke, more poke, nobody in their right mind should want black smoke as in mack/gmc/peterbuilt American big rigs. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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