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Hydrodgen fuel cell turbodiesel...


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The gas will have a cooling effect (which can be significant) if you're injecting it directly into the inlet manifold or cylinder as a liquid (that may be the case with these kits? Not sure). However, if it passes through a vapouriser and is then injected in gaseous form you lose that benefit entirely. Most LPG kits inject in gaseous phase (there are some that inject liquid LPG, though they're not popular in this country). Although if what you've been told about the fuel consumption of these kits is correct then the charge cooling from it will be negligible - you just aren't injecting enough LPG to get significant cooling.

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Some bigger boys looked into it, albeit wrt petrol engines, about forty years ago....

NASA TN D-8487 "Emissions and Total Energy Consumption of a Multicylinder Piston Engine running on Gasoline and a Hydrogen-Gasoline Mixture"

 

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On 05/10/2017 at 1:14 PM, geoffbeaumont said:

The gas will have a cooling effect (which can be significant) if you're injecting it directly into the inlet manifold or cylinder as a liquid (that may be the case with these kits? Not sure). However, if it passes through a vapouriser and is then injected in gaseous form you lose that benefit entirely. Most LPG kits inject in gaseous phase (there are some that inject liquid LPG, though they're not popular in this country). Although if what you've been told about the fuel consumption of these kits is correct then the charge cooling from it will be negligible - you just aren't injecting enough LPG to get significant cooling.

Its a gas injection system Geoff,  not vapour or liquid. Hence thinking of playing with a hh0 bubbler instead. TSD your right too!

If the bubbler does not work, I have a hh0 generator I can play silly beggars with all sorts of blowing stuff up tom foolery. Thank you king of random, youtube, cheers.

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32 minutes ago, Bandog said:

Its a gas injection system Geoff,  not vapour or liquid. Hence thinking of playing with a hh0 bubbler instead. TSD your right too!

If the bubbler does not work, I have a hh0 generator I can play silly beggars with all sorts of blowing stuff up tom foolery. Thank you king of random, youtube, cheers.

Gas and vapour are the same thing... If it's injected in the gaseous phase then there's no charge cooling happening.

Propane (and hydrogen) are gases at ambient temperature and pressure. They're stored under pressure as liquids, but when released from the pressurised container they expand to gases again (it's this expansion, which requires a significant input of energy, which causes the cooling - fridges use exactly the same principle). If the propane is kept pressurised until injected into the inlet manifold or cylinder (liquid injection), then the expansion and hence cooling occurs there and you get charge cooling. If the expansion happens beforehand and then the propane is injected as a gas (the more common vapour/gas injection) then there's no charge cooling as the cooling happens at the vapouriser (and in fact you normally have to pump hot engine coolant around the vapouriser to prevent it freezing).

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Geoff, if gas and vapour were the same thing, my lpg gas kit on my pertol car would not need a vaporiser, like you quite rightly said, requires hot coolant.

The expanding gas supercooling you speak about is the Joule Tomson effect which incidentally gasses apart from hydrodgen do this. Hydrodgen in fact gets hot when released, partly the cause of the Hindenburg disaster.

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There I have drawn a line under it, I don't want to go round in circles any longer, cheers,

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Strictly speaking gas and vapour are not exactly the same thing, but for the purposes of this discussion it makes no difference - dictionary definition here if you care enough.

Liquefied Petroleum Gas (LPG) - mostly propane - is actually a bit of a daft name, because once it's liquefied it isn't a gas any more.

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It's utter bull****.  The amount of energy requires to split hydrogen from oxygen far exceeds the energy released by burning them, and the load on the alternator will push up fuel consumption significantly.  It's one thing having a gas tank to add pre-separated gas (lpg or hydrogen), but quite another to do it on the vehicle.  Even at home, the electrical consumption to produce a bottle of hydrogen will not work out remotely efficient, and I'm pretty sure that creating and storing highly explosive gasses in your home or garage will be of interest to the authorities for very good reason, namely the well being of your neighbours.

You can post up as many youtube links as you find, but that won't change the laws of physics or the fact that it is in every way a bad idea and that all the other respondents were absolutely right.  The general guide of "if it worked, the manufacturers would have fitted it" is extremely reliable.  People with homebrew science kits on youtube are somewhat less reliable, in my experience.

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3 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Mythbusters busted this too - although there's a whole load of conspiracy theorists on the internet claiming they can disprove that and (coincidentally) selling HHO generator kits... :rolleyes:

And magnets, fuel ionisers, lead pellets, vortex generators and on and on....  A scam is born every minute!

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