rherl Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) OK I have read these forums but never posted. I am in the US and have a 200TDI that won't start. I had it started about 18 months ago when I first installed it on the chassis. I only ran it for a few seconds a couple of times because there was no coolant in it but it fired up immediately. I subsequently rebuilt the entire vehicle and am now back to the motor. It has an autospark loom in it which is brand new. I have bled the system and I can see diesel at the injectors when I use the lift pump to bleed them, but it does not flow heavily like at the bleed valve on the filter. I can here the fuel cut off switch engage and the motor turns over but it does not start. I have shot WD40 in to see if it would at least catch but nothing happens. The other thing that I find different from the last time it started is that the when the fuel cutoff wire is not connected the starter will not engage. It would seem to me that even if this were an electrical issue that the motor would turn over when I shot WD40 in even if it were for a few seconds. My first thought is that this is a timing issue, but why did it start without problems 18 months ago? I have not done anything with the motor in the interim. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated. Just for reference I was told this was pulled from a defender with 67000 mile on it. Nothing leaks on it at all. Thanks in advance for you advice. Edited October 13, 2017 by rherl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Hi rherl, I think you need to rule out air in the fuel system but I'm not quite sure I follow this part of your description: Quote I have bled the system and I can see diesel at the injectors when I use the lift pump to bleed them, but it does not flow heavily like at the bleed valve on the filter. There are basicaly two parts to a diesel system, low pressure end (lift pump to fuel injection pump) and high pressure end (fuel injection pump to injector). If you are pumping fuel manually with the lift pump then you should not be seeing fuel past the injection pump. If you have rebuilt this Defender then you have undoubtidly disturbed the fuel line from the diesel tank to the engine, right? There will be a lot of air in the system for you to remove. With the ignition in the off position, ensure that the diesel flowing from the tank to the filter bleed valve has no air bubbles in it when you opperate the lift pump manually. You don't have to, but I would remove the glowplugs so the engine can turn freely to save strain on your battery. Crack the high pressure lines open at the injectors and have someone crank the engine over untill you can see fuel coming from those lines at the injectors to make sure the fuel injection pump is air free. Put the glow plugs back and it should now fire assuming the timing is fine. If not, then check the timing and valve clearance to be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 My 200 has a penchant for fuel cut off solenoids. Do not assume it's working because you can hear the solenoid "click". Part number is RTC6702, it's a 10minute swap and a very simple thing to rule out. As for the starter not engaging unless the solenoid is connected, it's a very basic wiring system. Ignition fed live to the fuel solenoid and the starter solenoid fed from the "start" position on the ignition barrel. I can't really see why disconnecting one should affect the other...do you have the white and white/red wires in the proper place on the ignition barrel switch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rherl Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 Thanks for the advice. I have a fuel cut off on order and that is my first step. But I thought that even if I wasn't getting fuel into the motor if I sprayed a bit WD40 or starting fluid I would get some sort of ignition. Also funny thing on the ignition wiring. Everything I have seen and from what I can remember is the solid white is over the solid brown and the white/red is over the white/orange. The only way I can get the motor to turn over and the fuel cutoff to switch on and off is to switch the solid white with the white/red. Monkie - I have loosened the injector pipes from the injectors and cranked the motor and I do get some occasional squirts of fuel at the injector. How much fuel should be coming out when I crank the motor at the injector? My plan at this point is to replace the fuel cutoff, pull the glow plugs and crank it a bit more to see if I can purge more air out. I will report back. Being in the US it takes several days every time I need a new part. So probably next week. Do you guys have any thoughts on my ignition wiring? The switch is a TDCI switch, but I doubt that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 fuel solenoid wire is Plain White, White/red goes to starter motor solenoid from ignition switch. my [ex 2.5TD to 200tdi] ignition switch connections in my first reply in https://forums.lr4x4.com/topic/9354-wiring-diagram-200tdi-starter-switch/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Yes the tdci/td5 switch is different from the tdi one...old age is kicking in and I can't remember what I did lol. pretty sure it's the glow plug circuit part that needs tweaked though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally V8 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Couple of things,first off you don't need to wait for a new solenoid to turn up.Just remove the existing one and take out the plunger and spring,refit the housing. The injector pump will now have no stop device at all,so be sure you have a 17mm spanner handy to slacken the injector pipes if the engine runs away... Secondly even down to - 10C a healthy 200TDI will start without glowplugs. Have you looked at the timing belt at all ? a quick check to see if its still intact is to remove the oil filler cap and watch the rockers moving when you crank the engine.No guarantee that the timing is correct,but at least you will know if its all still going around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 ^^^^As above, before any parts arrive there are simple checks you can do. The Tdi engines are simple and providing there is a constant 12v supply to the fuel solenoid, timing is correct and valve clearances are correct and there is no air in the fuel system then it should cough into life. To check for air in the fuel system work in a methodical, systematic way working towards the injectors from the lift pump. (1) make sure fuel is being pushed out of the lift pump in air free spurts when you move the lever up and down by hand. (2) check that air free fuel is coming out of the filter bleed screw, again when you pump the lift pump by hand. (3) Test for 12v at the solenoid on the injection pump so you know that it is energised (you should hear it click open when 12v is applied to it). (4) When you crank the engine with the injector pipes slackened off the fuel spurting from them at the injector unions should be done so in regular pulses as the injection pump delivers the timed fuel dose, rather than in a random/intermittent spurt of fuel here and there. If there is air in the injection pump it can take a minute of cranking to push the air out before the pulses are regular and air free. I think that if the timing is fine, valve clearances are fine and you can see there is no air in the fuel system verified at the injector unions as the engine is cranked over then I can't see a reason why it shouldn't fire up and settle down to a nice idle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rherl Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 An Update. I changed out the stop solenoid today. I think the old was was working after I pulled it, but replaced it all the same. I then bled the system again starting at the filter. I pulled the valve cover and it appears at least on visual inspection that the timing is OK. I pulled the glow plugs and only one is working so I will replace. As I cranked the motor over it seems the injector for cylinder 3 and 4 are getting fuel injected to them but 1 and 2 are not. The pipe at 3 seemed to have a higher pressure than 4, and I never say fuel squirting at 1 and 2 at all. So my conclusion is that the problem lies with the injection pump. I let the motor turn over for probably a minute but never saw fuel at 1 and 2. Does my assumption seem correct? If so I will order a pump, but I want to make sure I am not missing something before a spend the money. Thanks again for the advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Have you cracked the injector pipe connections at the pump end to check if the low pressure is consistent or if there is indeed fuel at 1&2? Is there a possibility of the injectors being blocked/choked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rherl Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 I removed pipes 1 and 2 and cranked the motor and no fuel out of 1 and 2. The pipes were open and unblocked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 possibly looking at a injection pump rebuild then, the cam/roller inside the chrome plating comes off, & blocks the pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idioms Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) Hi Rherl, do have the fuel lines the correct way on the injector pump just a thought. Edited October 18, 2017 by idioms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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