1993 TDI 200 engine mount placement

[Dave64]

Hi All,

                      Would anyone possibly have either photos or tech drawings of the TDI 200 equipped Range Rover OR Defender?

Got to the stage where I have just about everything in place in the chassis, except for the FRONT engine mounts. I know by looking at them that they sit at an angle to the perpendicular plane, haven't measured the angle yet, but guessing around 30-35 degrees.

Some reference photos or drawings would certainly help out. Must point out this is NOT going back into a LR product, another project altogether.

Whilst I'm about it, asked some time ago about the side mounted turbocharger, any way the turbo can be "re-clocked" to get the inlet vertical? OR, would I have to get a whole new inlet manifold setup, someone on here told me that the Defender with the TDI200 had a top mounted turbo.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks, Dave64

[western]

genuine Defender 200tdi engine number starting with 11L definitely has a high mounted turbo same as the older TD 19J engine. the alloy compressor housing on front of the turbo can be moved around, there's a big circlip which secure it to the rest of the turbo assembly

[Dave64]

Thanks, which brings me to the next question, just where do I find the engine number on a TDI 200 from a 93 R/Rover?

Those model numbers unfortunately mean nothing to me, not being conversant with the differing variations.

Cheers, Dave

 

[western]

Engine number is stamped in the horizontal face just below number cylinder injector & glowplug, see my reply & photo in https://forums.lr4x4.com/topic/53987-200tdi-engine-number/?tab=comments#comment-481115

 

info/pictures of the various land rover engines in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover_engines

 

[Dave64]

Many thanks, much appreciated!

Just went out with a torch and scraped a bit of crud off, best I can make out it is 12L    00747 A. Only thing I can say with any certainty, the engine came out of a 1993 Range Rover station wagon which my mate wrecked. Unfortunately the rest of the vehicle probably went to China and came back as a refrigerator or something similar. Engine came with the brackets and those large semi-circular rubber mounts but that was all we salvaged.

As I said, I know very little about them (LR & RR) but have heard good reports on the engines themselves. This particular one had been looked after and properly serviced, the rest of the body and running gear was transplanted into another RR vehicle. We turfed out the 5 speed manual and hooked up a New Process 445 all synchro close ratio 4 speed box. Went together quite well, had an engineer fabricate an adapter plate.

Many thanks,again. Cheers.

Dave64

Edited November 19, 2017 by Dave64
additional text

[western]

12L makes it a Discovery/Range Rover unit, quite a early one with that serial number. just rebuilt my 200tdi in my 110, they are a strong engine & always seem to be fairly kind to the timing belt, I haven't had one break in 24 years. you can read my thread in the defender forum. 

[Dave64]

Thanks for the prompt reply!

Dave64

[miketomcat]

I made my own chassis mounts to suit discovery engine mounts (range rover should be the same) for my ibex.

These are completely different to defender mounts.

Mike

Edited November 19, 2017 by miketomcat

[Dave64]

miketomcat,

                               Looking at those photos of the mounts you fabricated, doesn't look to be much of an angle that the mounts sit on, if using original rubbers. Mine are designed to sit at approx 35 degrees to the perpendicular. I also take it that the flat side of your mount fits hard up against the chassis rail inner at right angles to the ground??

Dave64

Edited November 19, 2017 by Dave64
error in text

[miketomcat]

The discovery mount sits on a flat mount. I think the range rover had the same mounts. Unless your 200tdi came from a retro fit kit ie the range rover left the factory as a V8. The retro fit 200tdi kit was sold and fitted by dealers if this is the case the spigot bush in the flywheel is a different size to standard as it had to fit a V8 gearbox. I had one of these but can't remember what the mounts were like.

Mike

[Dave64]

Mike,

                   This particular vehicle and engine was an Australian release, so am assuming it was either a full import or locally assembled. If the latter, ANYTHING could have happened but I am inclined to think that it came out of whatever factory diesel 200 TDI equipped, not any retrofit.

I hadn't seen this type of mount, but the bloke who gave me the engine reckons they used such a big mount to cushion any engine vibration problems. He seems to think that the mounting pads were set at the previously mentioned 35 degrees to the perpendicular. I've already fabricated a template up accordingly, took a few drawings down to my local engineer/fabricator and he is going to go over them when he gets time. I'll post a photo or two when it's done and before I get around to installing it.

As far as the spigot bush is concerned, not using the original transmission anyway, already been sorted and assembled with the previously mentioned NP445 trans.

Cheers, Dave

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by Dave64
added text

[miketomcat]

these are discovery mounts during fabrication. The only reason I mentioned the spigot bush was because it took ages to work out why the gearbox wouldn't go on and it's very difficult to find the part number for this particular bush. One last thing the retro fit kits used a genuine parts so looked like factory fit I fact the spigot bush and subsequently the gearbox were the only reason I knew I had one.

Mike

[Dave64]

Mike, 

Those last two photos show the bolt coming out of the actual mount, (NOT the mount to bracket horizontal bolt) to be vertical and parallel to the face of the rectangular chassis. Unless you have a different mount than what I have, my mount has an offset built into the casting (approx 35 degrees) and again going only by the bloke who had the engine in the vehicle originally, swears that the brackets in the actual vehicle (1993 RR station wagon) are set at the same angle.

To me, that makes sense in what he says, the weight (of the engine) is distributed downwards as well as spread out slightly sideways. 

I don't know enough about them to bet the farm on it, and didn't have the donor vehicle or even get a good look at it, before it was crushed, but that is the reason I originally asked if anyone had photos or tech drawings of the mounting positions..

I'm no engineer by any means, have seen the way you have set yours up many times, in fact rebuilt a couple of old Jeeps where I used those vertical mount adapters with "donut" type cushions, worked quite well.

In fact, the project I'm rebuilding at the moment, has very similar type of original mounts midway down the chassis, angled downwards at the same 3 degrees of engine instillation, at the bellhousing.

As I'm just about to go ahead and have the front crossmember/engine mounting fabricated, last thing I want is to find out later that I have set the actual mounts at the wrong angle!

Thanks, Dave64

[TSD]

It sounds like you are describing something more like Series engine mounts? (I have almost no Series experience, but I had similar sounding angled mounts on my Ford V6 conversion hybrid)

Have a look at the pictures on this page and see if anything is familiar looking?

Edited November 21, 2017 by TSD

[Dave64]

TSD,

              Entirely different animal. See photos. They tell me this is the standard mount for TDI 200 engine originally fitted to 1993 R/Rover station wagon..Built big because of vibration problems so I've been told. Mount rubbers are interchangeable, but BRACKETS where they bolt onto engine are not!

You'll see what I mean about an offset of the bolt angle compared to the guts of the actual mount

Cheers, Dave64

[miketomcat]

They are the same as discovery and were mounted as I've shown in a discovery. It is possible they were mounted at an angle in a range rover but given the chassis are almost identical i would moùnt them as ive shown in the absence of anything to the contrry.

Mike

[landroversforever]

I can't picture what V8 engine mounts would look like but I'm using the above Disco mounts on a 200tdi defender chassis and they sit nicely on the mounts. I'd match how the fitted in the disco/RRC with the horizontal section and then you'll be OK. 

[Dave64]

That's exactly what I am trying to find out, how were they mounted in the R/RC??

I inherited the bare engine and transmission, so have nothing to work off. I live up in the scrub in Central Victoria, so unless I'm (un)likely to come across someone in my area with one, still flying blind!

Dave64

[Dave64]

Still trying to sort these mounts out. Surely someone knows what angle the original mounts were set at ex-factory? Must be somebody around who either has an old chassis kicking around or who may remember having the engine out at some stage?

Mike, if I do mount them straight up and down as you have done  in the photos, then which way does that inclination in the actual mount lean? Towards the engine? Or towards the chassis rail? Maybe it doesn't make much of an issue with an off-road buggy, I simply want to set it at the same angles as they were originally installed ex-factory.

Thanks, Dave64

[landroversforever]

I'd say they lean towards the engine so the weight goes straight down the bush. 

[Dave64]

Yes, that would make sense, if they were mounted straight up and down, i.e  on their flat on a bracket that was at 90 degrees to the engine and/or chassis rails, have another look at the mount though and it's almost telling that it should be assembled on the same angle or inclination. 

Otherwise, why design the mount that way? OK, you have to compensate somewhat for the engine trying to rotate under torque, maybe they factored that in by having that inclination by facing the engine?

Dunno, got me puzzled at the moment.

Just about fabricated the new crossmember, left it in such a way that I can add another bracket once I can find out how exactly they were set ex-factory. Thanks again.

Dave64

Edited November 25, 2017 by Dave64
additional text

[miketomcat]

As I've said I would mount them as per discovery flat mounts inclined towards the engine. I'm fairly sure a factory rr would be the same as the discovery was in production with a 200tdi before they fitted the 200tdi in a rangie. The chassis are virtually identical and land rover weren't known for reinvention.

Mike

[Dave64]

Thanks Mike, will add another bracket to the crossmember and mount them the same as in your photo with the offset facing the engine. May even get brackets folded up in such a way as they can be "sandwiched" between the crossmember to chassis rail bolts and then bolted to the 45 degree angle part.

Thanks for all the input, Cheers, Dave64

[Dave64]

OK, tacked everything in place, mounting bolts facing straight down parallel with the engine, offset leaning in towards the engine block. Took the whole shooting match down to a structural engineer and let him run rampant with the mig after he tacked a couple of braces to stop the crossmember twisting. Ended up with about 25mm clearance all around the sump. Bit of trimming required on the off (drivers) side engine bracket as it was fouling on the chassis rail, so beefed the bracket up with some extra 4mm plate to be welded in next cab off the rank. Then a trial fit to make sure everything is where it's supposed to be. Once I get the front crossmember bolted to the chassis rails, check all my driveline angles and then tighten up both the rear engine/trans mounts and the mid-ship bellhousing mounts. Made a bit of a blue with the near side mid ship mount but found a 5mm thick X 12mm centre X 50mm O.D. hardened steel washer should just about slip in nicely between the bottom of the flange on the mounting bracket and the original donut rubbers.

Dave64

[miketomcat]

Cool. I think a build thread would interest many on here hint hint...

Mike