miggit Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Just wondering if anyone has experience of H4 led bulbs, and are they any good? I've got crystal clear headlamps, the really annoying Dim city light setting....really must look at chopping that out.. and was wondering if the LED bulbs are as good as they claim.. HID quality? Which is probably the biggest single thing I miss about my L322, just don't miss the screen of doom and bong of death... L322 thing BONG! your suspension is broken please fork out another £1000 to the Stealer to go on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 The chat brushes on the topic of the bulbs here... I've been looking at them for a few years now, but not really all that confident with the direction of the technology, as they are so hi power they need some pretty good cooling, and it looks like most are now being installed with small computer type cooling fans that evidently need a fair bit of attention and seize up pretty easily... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miggit Posted December 6, 2017 Author Share Posted December 6, 2017 Thanks for the link! I will follow it for developments..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoSS Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 I could be wrong, but i seem to remember them being illegal as is the case with aftermarket HID bulbs in halogen reflectors. I have a set of these and am quite impressed. ebay link Supposedly DOT approved. Mine are E marked (although link here is not from the same supplier i bought from, so check) they will fit a defender, and better cooling as bowl is the heatsink Edit: Yes it seems i was correct Link And buying a whole lamp unit, which is E marked (genuine or not, you make your call) seems to be ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miggit Posted December 6, 2017 Author Share Posted December 6, 2017 The biggest problem with those complete light units is the techrical (deliberate) destructions and specs are not in the best of Engrish and the question of RHD / LHD comes in to play... Bearing in mind that the majority are listed as Jeep Wrangler first, which is predominantly LHD in America (which is a massive modding market), I have grave doubts that you'll get RHD lamps from a Chinese supplier... And I also have my doubts about the 'E' marks....I'm sure my headlamps have an E mark and RHD on them... there is no RHD mark on any of those LED units. Anything that is spec'd for the RHD market appears to suffer from the Range Rover pricing syndrome... add the words Range Rover to the description and the price goes up x3 Example a full set of aero wipers for my Mercedes ML £6 just the 2 front for my old L322 £18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 American beam pattern is flat and has no kick up therefore not left or right hand. My crystal clears (halogen) are American pattern, E marked and according to my mot man perfectly legal. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddi camel Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 I've just bought some LED bulbs and photographed a comparison with them, the std halogen and HID bulbs in the same unit, I'll try to get the images up tonight, but I was very impressed with the LEDs and I specifically chose those without fans for cooling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miggit Posted December 7, 2017 Author Share Posted December 7, 2017 Well having done a bit of googling I found out that a headlamp can have LHT, RHD, or an Arrow pointing right facing the lamp... if there are no markings other than DOT or Exx then they are for LHD applications... I didn't know that US bulbs were flat, I thought that they kicked up to the right. And what the implications of fitting flat beams are I'll have to have another nosey... And muddi camel I look forward to your reply, you might find this helpful! https://forums.lr4x4.com/topic/102189-how-do-i-add-photos/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoSS Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 5 hours ago, miketomcat said: American beam pattern is flat and has no kick up therefore not left or right hand. My crystal clears (halogen) are American pattern, E marked and according to my mot man perfectly legal. Mike What he said ^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miggit Posted December 7, 2017 Author Share Posted December 7, 2017 So running on that logic, if they have a DOT and an E mark they should be OK, just steer clear of the E only marked ones! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 9 hours ago, miggit said: So running on that logic, if they have a DOT and an E mark they should be OK, just steer clear of the E only marked ones! No; DOT is US spec, E is EU spec, and both will be LHD, so having the two together means nothing in UK regulations. You may find CE marked RHD lamps, which would be legal here, but of course the Chinese stick that label on anything completely fraudulently. It'll be easier after Brexit, because you'll only need to worry about the British Standard kite mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miggit Posted December 8, 2017 Author Share Posted December 8, 2017 ^ if we ever get there....^ If a lamp is DOT marked it's US spec, so flat... if it also has an E mark then you can use it in the UK 'legally' (based on the legitimacy of the E mark) BUT if a lamp just has an E mark and no DOT, it is EU spec only, and like us their lights kick to the side, only to be awkward theirs go the opposite to us... So no DOT, no use here! Unless it has an arrow pointing to the curb, RHD, LHT, or a double ended arrow which means it's flat beam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zardos Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 (edited) I seem to remember reading somewhere that a lot of modern car now have flat beams as standard. I guess it removes a cost of having left or right hand drive versions or having to include mechanics for switching. Also https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/m4s01000801.htm Says Flat beams are OK for the MOT Edited December 8, 2017 by zardos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickwilliams Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 12 hours ago, Snagger said: You may find CE marked RHD lamps, which would be legal here, but of course the Chinese stick that label on anything completely fraudulently. It'll be easier after Brexit, because you'll only need to worry about the British Standard kite mark. Err, no. For lots of reasons, no. Firstly CE marking does not apply to automotive components, they are e-marked instead. Secondly, CE marking isn't going to go away with Brexit, no matter how much some may wish it, and thirdly, the Kitemark is not and never has been a national safety mark for the UK, it's a registered trade mark owned by the British Standards Institution who are only one of a number of bodies who can approve products of all kinds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miggit Posted December 8, 2017 Author Share Posted December 8, 2017 There used to be BS iso but I don't ever recall seeing that of car parts.... I do recall seeing a lot of parts with PAT PEND! and MOWOG... maybe they were the standard! As far as CE mark goes, you are correct it is just an E and a small number (1-14 I think) which indicates which country tested the lights.... that's probably another countability ploy from the HSE, I'm sorry the profanity scanner has missed that one! So we are back to it needs the E mark to be legal in the EU and it needs the DOT mark to ensure it is flat beam and pasases the MOT, or it should have a double ended arrow pointing left and right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TobyMellin Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 I have used the LED headlamp bulbs on my Defenbder TD5. I checked them on the beam setter at work, they did seem to have some kind of pattern, but it wasn't brilliant! They produced really good light on both high and low beam. The biggest problem I found with them, was the interference with radio signals. As soon as the headlights were turned on, my radio would loose all signal. The only way I found round this was to fit clip on ferrites on the headlamp loom. I would of thought they would be illegal, they did arrive in a plain box with Chinglish instructions! Toby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AV8R Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 On 8-12-2017 at 9:05 AM, Snagger said: You may find CE marked RHD lamps, which would be legal here, but of course the Chinese stick that label on anything completely fraudulently. Doesn't "CE" stand for "Chinese Export" ? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 No. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/ce-marking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miggit Posted December 29, 2017 Author Share Posted December 29, 2017 Well as usual in the case of all things legal and EU it's written in 500 pages of gibberish, with the addition of as many weasel words as possible.... I wonder if there is a standard for writing confusing documents, and an annual prize for the most confusing but correct paper?? From what I can tell it's only VOSA or the Police who will be interested in what is marked on your headlamps.... Your friendly MOT tester is only worried about colour, function, and beam pattern aim..... You can have LHD lamps fitted and use them on UK roads provided you have either blanked the kick to the right, or you have beam benders fitted. Provided it falls in the correct position of the headlamp beam tester there wont be a problem. At the end of the day it's all aimed at making it as hard as possible, but not impossible, to change your lights from the original factory fit.... They'd rather you changed the car to upgrade your headlamps, than just change the lights.... I wonder if there is a case for the courts, as they are trying to restrict your right to better night vision... It is annoying as I've gone from a Range Rover L322, which had HID lighting, to a Classic and a Merc ML both which have tungsten halogen lighting... it is like driving with the side lights on.. especially when some on coming traffic has HID lights and the self leveling system isn't as good as it could be.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 A friend has had LED bulbs fitted in std. 7" reflectors which I have seen and while good and bright there is virtually no difference between High beam and dip pattern and the cut off of the beam on dip was not very sharp , I'd imagine it's down to the focal point not truly existing with the LED bulb . Hence the need for a specifically designed reflector to suit the LED light source . That said I'm yet to personally see/try out a decent designed set of LED 7" lights cheers Steve b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miggit Posted December 29, 2017 Author Share Posted December 29, 2017 I found this, which is a bit of an eye opener! I'm thinking that Halogen bulbs are OK if you can get a less yellow colour... I still haven't found a 7" headlamp that is suitable for anything other than a halogen bulb, apart from the sealed led units... they look good in principle, but there are a lot of cheap Ping Pong LED's with a very short lifespan out there... OK when it's just the bulb, a little more concerning when it's the whole unit that has to be replaced. And the other thing that puts me off is the icing effect on LED units... although we wouldn't suffer much in this country, there are still days that it could cause a problem. Also there isn't such a thing as a 360 degree LED bulb, this is the main cause of the splintered light output... a halogen is a 360 degree bulb! Of cause there is another factor to consider.... the LR effect... Just about every LR model suffers from bad earths which can reduce the voltage to the headlamps and making them more yellow that they should be.. I used to drive a Defender 110 that had no noticeable difference between dim dipped (side lights+ low power headlamps) and full power headlamps... until the headlamp earths were wired directly back to the battery! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 That's a good demonstration of why LED bulbs are not approved in the EU, and that you'd have to fit a complete lamp unit with correctly profiled reflectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=jon= Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 9 hours ago, miggit said: From what I can tell it's only VOSA or the Police who will be interested in what is marked on your headlamps.... Or, unfortunately, your insurance company if you have an accident, especially if lighting / glare comes into it Phillips apparently have a retrofit H4 / H7 LED bulb that works correctly in normal reflector housings, giving a very similar beam pattern to a filament bulb - however they are about £200 a pair, and aren't type approved so technically not usable on the roads.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roverdrive Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 I was interested in these as well, and was looking at this link https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/headlight-led-bulbs/products/latest-led-headlights-h4-philips-z-es-hi-lo-beam-conversion-9-32v At £70 I was not going to bother especially given the spray and pray effect of the LED in halogen reflectors, though if the attached picture in the article isn’t snake oil, they seem to have solved that issue. If there is no additional glare over Halogen, I would give them a go. I have spoken to a friend in the trade and hope to be able to beat the £70 price tag. The lamps are Philips units with the z-es chips so you would like to think they are kosher, but this is the internet after all! If I get the chance to try them I will report back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=jon= Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 The ones I saw were Philips Ultinon LED: https://www.powerbulbs.com/product/philips-x-treme-ultinon-led-headlamp-h4 There'a a review / comparison here: http://www.tundratalk.net/forums/tundra-lighting-electrical/603282-h4-philips-x-treme-ultinon-led-headlight-bulb-review.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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