Swivel seal retaining plate.

[Stambecco]

Defender 110 200Tdi 1990(H)

Hi,

I am in the middle of replacing the swivel chrome ball seal, using the entire hub and half shaft removal method. After cleaning it up and unbolting the 10 mm bolts on the retaining plate, I prised it off, only to see another retaining plate behind it. They are identical.

Question is, is there supposed to be one plate or two?

I can't see why there should be two and it must have been on there since the last person changed it. I have owned the vehicle for 22 years and this is the first time I've done it. I use oil in the swivels, not grease.

I have also got the wrong gasket, I will use corn flakes box and silicone, but that's another story!

Thanks.

[ianmayco68]

I’m pretty sure there’s 2 on mine if I remember correctly, mines a 110 200tdi .

[Stambecco]

Ah, interesting. Thanks a lot. Good job I waited. 

[Mo Murphy]

I found 2 fitted once on a vehicle, took one off and it never made any difference to the sealing.

Landroversforever on here sells shiny stainless replacements for not much money, might be worth a pm.

Mo

[Stambecco]

I don't know what to do! I think that as there have been three cases where two plates have been fitted, I will refit both of them.

Thanks Mo but I haven't got time, it has to go back together tomorrow 👍

[western]

items 12 & 13 in 110 parts book on page 415 shows a joint washer & the retainer plate, in the qty list it shows 2 per assembly [each side] 

http://www.retroanaconda.com/landrover/parts_books/110/5_axles_suspension_steering_p398-471.pdf

[Ex Member]

Get this: https://yrmit.co.uk/product/stainless-steel-316-swivel-oil-seal-retainer-land-rover-defender-discovery-1-range-rover-classic/

[western]

Or as mentioned earlier PM Landroversforever -- Stainless Steel Swivel Seal Retainer plates available. FRC4142 and 571755 versions. 

[Stambecco]

Excellent, thanks very much. The stainless steel ones are nice but it's a job for another day.👍

[Peaklander]

4 hours ago, western said:

items 12 & 13 in 110 parts book on page 415 shows a joint washer & the retainer plate, in the qty list it shows 2 per assembly [each side] 

http://www.retroanaconda.com/landrover/parts_books/110/5_axles_suspension_steering_p398-471.pdf

That shows two in total, one each side. Why would there be two on each side? Weird. 

[landroversforever]

It doesn't show two, one is the retaining plate and the other is a massive fibre gasket. 

Sorry peaklander, misread your post!

Edited December 16, 2017 by landroversforever

[western]

Ah that should be 2 per assembly [1 of each on each swivel housing] not 2 each side. if you scroll down to the later 300tdi front axle it only list the seal retainer, no gasket.

[Stambecco]

I've just put it all back together and now I'm really confused. Both plates looked the same to me, not a plate and a fibre gasket. I fear I may have now done it wrongly with the wrong parts! 

[Stambecco]

I've just put a magnet on the old plates/rings, both metal.

[ianmayco68]

I’m nearly 90% sure that my 110 had 2 each side both metal  I cleaned them up and painted them , can remember thinking why was there 2 each side will have a look tomorrow see if I can confirm it, but it was bout 2 years ago.

[Stambecco]

Yes, same here. I'm pretty sure these ones have never been off since the vehicle was built. It's possible that later models may have had a fibre gasket instead, I suppose. 1990 was an early 200. 

[ianmayco68]

Not sure but mines a 93 K reg .

[Retroanaconda]

I’ve had vehicles with two installed on each side.

I think earlier types used a gasket, later ones don’t seem to have one.

[landroversforever]

Mine had two when I stripped it down, the early ones have that gasket and I think people are just getting confused when they've fitted two. There certainly no reason I can think of that you'd need two! 

[Peaklander]

Yes I mean if you needed two, then you’d have to make twice as many stainless ones which you’d then have to sell! 😀

[Mo Murphy]

I can confirm that Ross's stainless ones work admirably in the singular with a gasket in my case.

Mo

[landroversforever]

6 hours ago, Peaklander said:

Yes I mean if you needed two, then you’d have to make twice as many stainless ones which you’d then have to sell! 😀

Well if people want ta I'm happy to sell them two sets and reduce the postage

[ianmayco68]

It looks like my memory is working wright there appears to be 2 fitted .

[Roger-56]

On ‎12‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 6:59 PM, western said:

items 12 & 13 in 110 parts book on page 415 shows a joint washer & the retainer plate, in the qty list it shows 2 per assembly [each side] 

http://www.retroanaconda.com/landrover/parts_books/110/5_axles_suspension_steering_p398-471.pdf

Came up with the same query regarding two retaining plates and found the topic on your forum.  Could it be the retaining plate had been doubled up as a manufacturers mod to make it stiffer and thus  stop leaks through the joint washer when the swivel housings were filled with oil.  Did the early defenders had oil filled swivel housings?

western may have fallen in to the trap caused by our digital age by only looking at a page found by a search engine rather than the whole document.

A lot of technical documents on the web (not only Landrover) were written before the age of the internet.  They are index based, so to search you use the mk1 eyeball starting with the index from there you are guided  along a specific path which takes you to a section and perhaps sub section which may have relevant additional information.  A search engine looks for specific words or groups of words within the text of the document.  The search results may even show you the index and sub section pages but who wants to look at them when with a single mouse click you can be on the very page you think you need.

The Landrover Parts Book is one such document with the relevant section entitled axles and suspension so the quantities are for one axle not individual assemblies. eg the housing bearings (item 6 on page 415) and all the associated parts are not handed so the parts lists quantities are doubled hence 14 off Bolts, Spring washers and plain washers for holding the retaining plate.  The half shaft assembly is handed so quantities for one axe are single.

There is an anomaly to this if you look at page 417 the technical author had a bit of a senior moment.  The swivel pin housing is handed so single per axle and all the items attached to the top half of the housing have per axle quantities, but for the bottom half it goes a bit Pete Tong with some quantities for per axle and some per housing.

The moral of the story is don't just rely on the information you are presented instantly with by the internet always try to find another source to cross reference with.  Look at section and subsection pages another 10 min reading could save you hours work or better still money.

 

[hurbie]

found this topic searching for info on this exact topic : rebuilding a 1984 LHD axle , and found 2 retaining plate's on both side's , and of course the gasket (FRC4206).

i looked in my old parts manual RTC9863CE (land rover one ten , covering vehicles up to august 1986) , and i found only 1 plate per side (FRC4142) .

the manual has a release date of october 1989 , so if the factory removed 1 plate in lets say 1988 , and found this to seal equely wel as 2 , why do you find 2 plate's on cars manufactured years later .....(as in the original posters question)