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Premium Durability, premium b******s more like


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The JLR dealer network in the UK is in the main no longer set-up to cater for the utility vehicle, showroom decor and sales staff are aimed at the high end business executive who only needs 4wd to get to his peg on this or that corporate shoot through to the family owner / user to ferry the sprogs to school and back and the occasional hauling of the daughters nag and trailer to Pony Club. It's all lifestyle and gadgets and the ability to tell the man in the suit at the service desk that the washer bottle cap is hard to get off. The vehicle is usually exchanged for a new one at three years when the warranty is up.

Types like this keep the company nicely in profit. The Defender had / has a following but it's small beans in comparison.

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“We have to stop thinking about function in a durable way,” McGovern told Autocar at the Frankfurt show. “When you’re buying into the brand, you’re buying a premium product.”

Holy bloody hell is that man ever thinking when he opens his mouth???

Imagine being a commercial user and seeing this . . . why would you even bother test driving one? 

I also note from the article that since British plants are at capacity, this thing could be made in Slovakia. 

I think it's safe to say that JLR will never produce another workhorse again. Those days are gone forever.  

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I wasn't trying to imply they were used as offroaders in Dubai... or anywhere for that matter :ph34r: Although I seem to remember they've opening up a test facility somewhere in that area to see how they handle heat and sand so you'd like to think they could do it.

They're a fortune here so I can't imagine what they cost as exports.

My experience of people who have to go off road for a living or a long way from help is they just want basic and simple, other manufacturers still have some offering available away from UK / EU regulations but not Land Rover they're not interested.

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26 minutes ago, Happyoldgit said:

The JLR dealer network in the UK is in the main no longer set-up to cater for the utility vehicle, showroom decor and sales staff are aimed at the high end business executive who only needs 4wd to get to his peg on this or that corporate shoot through to the family owner / user to ferry the sprogs to school and back and the occasional hauling of the daughters nag and trailer to Pony Club. It's all lifestyle and gadgets and the ability to tell the man in the suit at the service desk that the washer bottle cap is hard to get off. The vehicle is usually exchanged for a new one at three years when the warranty is up.

Types like this keep the company nicely in profit. The Defender had / has a following but it's small beans in comparison.

That's not all bad, my local Isuzu dealer was also the local Land Rover dealer, Isuzu deliberately targeted them once the demise of the defender was announced so that defender users saw them when they were taking theirs for servicing etc in the hope they would buy. Land Rover forced them to build a huge new multi million pound showroom else they'd lose the franchise, this mean't every time I took my Isuzu for a service I could have free coffee and cake and load my pockets with cans of coke before getting in the Isuzu where there was a bottle of water and a tin of mints waiting for me :)

The downside was a service was around £650...

Edited by Cynic-al
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Do you know what, I really want to have faith in LR as it stands now, but when a stripped out commercial vehicle costs more than a standard vehicle and has less hauling space you've got to wonder what sort of brain is running the show... I mean come on guys... my newly found confidence is already one peg lower...

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2 hours ago, Happyoldgit said:

The JLR dealer network in the UK is in the main no longer set-up to cater for the utility vehicle.

Is this not true of every utility/commercial vehicle sold on the market? We have one exception up our way and with our fleet where the Merc Sprinters go to the truck division of  Mercedes. Anything above gvw 3500kg goes to a commercial/HGV garage regardless of make.

The Vivaros go to the Vauxhall dealers, the Transits to the Ford dealers etc etc. All set up for the car customers, even the "transit centres" are not really as such, just another sign above the dealership door. 

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On 16/12/2017 at 12:17 PM, SteveG said:

Personally, I think that a Defender that’s only different in looks and price from an RR/D5 is a cop out.

You mean unlike the original Defender which was a Range Rover drivetrain with a Series body bolted on? How very dare they... :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Maverik said:

Do you know what, I really want to have faith in LR as it stands now, but when a stripped out commercial vehicle costs more than a standard vehicle and has less hauling space you've got to wonder what sort of brain is running the show... I mean come on guys... my newly found confidence is already one peg lower...

It appears very few have faith. Nothing is "cheap" nowadays regardless of make/model, no one is being forced to buy JLR products and if they don't meet "your*" criteria then go elsewhere. 

I don't think you even need to have faith to be honest...there have been numerous examples citing how great the defender was and also how it wasn't. The rose tinted specs are always great to peer through though and we all own them 'cos we mostly all have defenders!

 

*generic , not meaning Mav specifically

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Round here a lot of the onetime Defender-drivers have switched to Ford Rangers: the "Wildtrak" version with the 3.2 engine being particularly popular with those-who-tow.

I looked at a Ranger - it's nowhere near Discovery-class. Or Defender! Even has *drum* brakes at the back [how deeply and utterly quaint!] which can be made to overheat spectacularly if you're driving heavily-laden through Milton Keynes's chains-of-roundabouts-every-500-yards towing a couple of tons. Would hate to take a fully-laden one down an Alpine pass.

A "modern Defender" would, I hope, come with the traditional Disco/RR disc brakes/intelligent IRS-on-all-corners, air-suspension [turns a nightmare fast/heavy tow into a dream ride!] and the ttaction-control stuff that Discoveries/RRs have had for decades [a computer can decide what to do regarding torque-direction vastly better than crude mechanical difflocks].

Proper coupled trailer-brakes [ABS/stability-control on towcar interworking with sensors and electronic variable-rate braking on the trailer] would be a must-have too; Decent lights [LEDs are so much better than HIDs or vintage-style glow-worm H4 halogens], heating/aircon that actually works and can be set to turn-on 10 minutes before I need to drive, a good infotainment package (satnav/4G-Wifi/phone-integration and separate screens for the rear-seat passengers) and a *PETROL* engine option - offer it all on a 3-year/12,00-mile-per-annum lease package for £450/month - and there'll be a waiting-list at your local LR dealer.

I'd be one of them!.


Then in 3 years time the less-wealthy get to buy them up cheap.

Edited by Tanuki
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28 minutes ago, Scotts90 said:

Is this not true of every utility/commercial vehicle sold on the market? We have one exception up our way and with our fleet where the Merc Sprinters go to the truck division of  Mercedes. Anything above gvw 3500kg goes to a commercial/HGV garage regardless of make.

The Vivaros go to the Vauxhall dealers, the Transits to the Ford dealers etc etc. All set up for the car customers, even the "transit centres" are not really as such, just another sign above the dealership door. 

That is not true around here. Lookers in Colchester have a proper transit centre and the experience is very different from a car dealership. They appreciate the different needs of people who need a tool for work vs. a lifestyle machine.

 

Vauxhall on the other hand....

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^ You might have a proper Transit Centre.... but they don't make a proper Transit 4x4 anymore... that's why the utilities use the Defender and the Sprinter... proper 4x4 with ground clearance! 

Personally I blame the government! If they hadn't cut the Army, they'd still be buying Landies and JLR would be happy making shed loads of money off the back of the taxpayer.... The really sad thing is the crop of Japanese pickups aren't as good in the rough, and they are somewhat lacking in weight over the rear... it makes for interesting towing... what out for a jackknife happening near you! 

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Fair point!

While your there...

Some say.. if you want to go into the desert take a Land Rover, but if you want to return take a Landcruiser!

although in fairness they have fubar'd them trying to spec them up to the Range Rover.... they aren't as good as some say... I've broken 3 :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, FridgeFreezer said:

You mean unlike the original Defender which was a Range Rover drivetrain with a Series body bolted on? How very dare they... :rolleyes:

I meant in the context of today’s RR and Discovery which are radically different than the initial RR. :)

 

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"Personally I blame the government! If they hadn't cut the Army, they'd still be buying Landies and JLR would be happy making shed loads of money off the back of the taxpayer"

But look what the various insurgents the UK Army are finding themselves up-against choose to drive... the classic "Tactical" is a Toyota HiLux! [though they don't come from the factory in Japan with the machine-gun-pintle fitted in the load-bed].

Face it - the Defender is a design three decades past its best: TD5 engines dragged it gasping into the 21st century but it's really time to put it to bed and embrace modern technology.

Perhaps Burt Rutan and his "Scaled Composites" guys could be involved in the next-generation-Defender? Kevlar-composite monocoques with stressed-alloy/foam-sandwich cladding [as used in F1 cars since the 1970s... light, strong, with programmable-deformation characteristics so you don't die when you crash at 100MPH] would be a great marketing point and the way to go for a new Defender 'platform'!

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On 12/17/2017 at 9:29 PM, Scotts90 said:

image.thumb.jpeg.05c9a898dcf60ca62b91a4b5c2755f09.jpeg

well it's not a million miles away in profile is it??

JLR/Tata are a company...they need to make money like every other company out there and love or loathe the line up they seem to be pretty effective at coining it in.

New defender will sell. No doubts at all. Will it upset the purists? What doesn't...:rolleyes:

True! It will be all about sales with JL, the Defender as we know it is dead! Long live the Defender! :lol:

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I wonder if this is going to end up with a new pickup model... that just happens to resemble a rebadged Japanese truck... Lets face it they'd only be following the example of VW, Mercedes and Ford......

And it wouldn't be the first time in Rovers history either....

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18 hours ago, SteveG said:

I honestly thought this was a joke until it popped up in one of my news feeds!

 

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My comment was more the point of view they're not pricing them to be all that competitive, I mean you can pick up a new short wheelbase T6 transporter 4 motion Highline trim spec for easy 35-40k, just a bit of a half arse attempt at a commercial conversion really.

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Well indeed, I just saw the garish colours and thought it was some sort of factory mock up!

Can only be a van for tootling round london or surrey... 50K, I mean... as mentioned above you can get stuff as capable if not more for half that.

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