Bowie69 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 17 minutes ago, monkie said: A sprinkler system inside a residential or office building where the fire is going to paper, furniure etc and people may get trapped; then absolutley a good idea. Quite right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Part of the problem with sprinklers (ignoring cost etc) is that scroats set them off for fun, so in a multi-storey, the jets would have to be high enough to be out of reach. They probably would slow down the spread of fire, I have seen a vehicle fire fought by a fire brigade with just a hose quite successfully. But I am intrigued about the untouched vehicles. - is that a Defender in the distance-- how come they are a write off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 (edited) because it's easier than getting them down and someone putting their name to them being ok Edited January 3, 2018 by Cynic-al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 I once remember seeing a prius on fire on the motorway with the fire brigade stood around not really knowing what to point at it. Cars are complicated things! You could put a water sprinkler system in, a foam system, maybe with the enclosed nature even a CO2 (although that might not be so great if there are people still in there) or eco friendly halon replacement system. You could also design the air flow of the building to extract the fumes but restrict a fire if it took like they did when they rebuild kings cross after the fire. They all have to be installed and maintained and it all costs money which comes out of the ticket price so perhaps with such a limited frequency it's more important to make sure people can get out and leave it at that? What I would like to see would be spaces that are wide enough to actually open my door once I've parked and a space long enough not to have 3 ft of car stuck out into the lane everytime I park, now that would be worth an extra 50p! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 hour ago, cackshifter said: Part of the problem with sprinklers (ignoring cost etc) is that scroats set them off for fun, so in a multi-storey, the jets would have to be high enough to be out of reach. They probably would slow down the spread of fire, I have seen a vehicle fire fought by a fire brigade with just a hose quite successfully. But I am intrigued about the untouched vehicles. - is that a Defender in the distance-- how come they are a write off? Some of the vehicles might look untouched but you can't really tell just from looking at pictures, the heat must have been incredible. But, if some did survive with little or no damage at the top of the car park, how do you get them out of there without damaging them, it looks like they couldn't be driven out! That vehicle in the distance doesn't look like right for a Defender to me, the rear wheel is too far back. I think it is either a small van or maybe something like a Kia Soul? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 It seems to be only the vehicles with concrete roofs above them that caught fire. Those on the top deck, with clear sky allowing the heat to escape, did not suffer severe damage. Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantastic Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 I imagine the ones on top that appear unharmed in photos are quite smoke damaged. They would have to be ripped apart and cleaned. They are scrap unfortunately. These kinds of fires are so rare that I'm not sure I'd support going all crazy to be amending regulations. It was an accident, thankfully only material. As it was only material maybe we got the balance right this time? It's obviously awful but we will never live in a world without any accidents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 I tend to agree with a comment above.. Some of the vehicles may be ok and totally untouched by fire but the cost of safe recovery would probably be greater then the cost of replacement such is our world these days.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roverdrive Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 We have water mist nozzles over all engines on the ship, as well as over the fuel centrifuges. They are automatically triggered in case of both flame and smoke. He water “fog” helps contain and cool the fire, allowing it to be fought relatively easily. http://tycoaquamist.com/ As always speed is of the essence, and I do believe that a sprinkler system, even if on a dry riser, would have prevented the fire spreading to other levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dailysleaze Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 I can hardly ever find a multi-storey that fits a Defender's height anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_pete Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 4 hours ago, V8 Freak said: I tend to agree with a comment above.. Some of the vehicles may be ok and totally untouched by fire but the cost of safe recovery would probably be greater then the cost of replacement such is our world these days.... When has it ever been cheap to recover cars from the top of a structurally unsafe multi storey car park ? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_CSK Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 From my uni days studying architecture three things are required for a successful fire, remove any one and the fire goes out. Heat, Fuel and oxygen. So in order to prevent fire or fire spread one needs to be limited or eliminated. From the regulation perspective when designing buildings the only criteria is the protection of life as insurance covers the building. All structures are designed to enable all occupants in the worst case the ability to escape to a fire protected zone and then out of the building in a predescribed time. In the case of Grenfel it was assumed that all floors were independently fire separated so there was no need for a full evacuation. In this case, Liverpool, there was no loss of life or injuries as a result so it is unlikely the regulations will need to change. The insurance claim even if the average car value is £12,000 the total claim would be around £19m that is unlikely to have a huge impact on premiums. Is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Well if you said 35 million cars in the country then that's about 50p per insurance policy to get their money back in a year Plus the buildings removal / replacement costs. Not bad going! Plus that's 1200 new / used cars sold so that's good for the economy. Bit of an inconvenience for the car owners though. In this situation once the policy pays out your on your own so you lose the courtesy car they may have given you and any time between getting the money and your replacement car being delivered your without transport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve King Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) It could go well above £19 million I think! The cost of removing the vehicles and demolishing the car park needs to be factored in too. If forensic evidence points to one car being the proximate cause of the blaze, then the other insurers (car, contents and building ) will try to recover costs from the insurer of the offending car. I work in household insurance and we have already had our instructions regarding contents of cars in that car park! Edited January 4, 2018 by Steve King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miggit Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 From the footage I've seen, you can see the offender.. in fact you can workout the approximate age and model, but, all of the budding David Baileys are out of focus, so you can't make out the registration.... Think if that was my car I'd be inclined to stay stum... got a feeling that will be the insurance companies line too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_CSK Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Can you imaging renewing your insurance after this? q. Have you made a claim in the last year that was your responsibility? If so what was the value paid out. a. Yes £25m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02GF74 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Like everything it is risk vs cost compromise. How often does this happen? How much would it cost to make carparks 100%fireproof? Would you want to pay for example 10x what you pay now to park? No, neither would I, so we all chance it. A 1,000+ cars burn out in a seemingly one off event. **** happens. We take it on the chin as our insurance premium go up a tiny amount and carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miggit Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 On a slightly brighter note at least you're less likely to return to your LR product to find that some git has parked so close to you, that you can't get in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwakers Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 On 05/01/2018 at 9:36 AM, Simon_CSK said: Can you imaging renewing your insurance after this? q. Have you made a claim in the last year that was your responsibility? If so what was the value paid out. a. Yes £25m out of curiosity i just did a quote on that premise. it raised my policy form £307 to £417 so not as bad as youd think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 4 hours ago, qwakers said: out of curiosity i just did a quote on that premise. it raised my policy form £307 to £417 so not as bad as youd think... Just one other thing.... you aren't allowed to park in multi storey car parks any more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_CSK Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 12 minutes ago, monkie said: Just one other thing.... you aren't allowed to park in multi storey car parks any more And only third party. No fire and theft for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 On 1/1/2018 at 6:57 PM, Scotts90 said: I forgot not everyone is as prepared as the average Land Rover owner lol. Extinguishers should be at the exits though, it's pretty impressive what a 9kg extinguisher can deal with. The reason for no fire extinguishers is likely the same as the reason you won't find them in tower blocks, because inside a week all the pikey ****es will have nicked them and flogged them in a car boot sale. Sad but true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offroadbaggott Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 On 03/01/2018 at 1:58 PM, monkie said: Some of the vehicles might look untouched but you can't really tell just from looking at pictures, the heat must have been incredible. But, if some did survive with little or no damage at the top of the car park, how do you get them out of there without damaging them, it looks like they couldn't be driven out! That vehicle in the distance doesn't look like right for a Defender to me, the rear wheel is too far back. I think it is either a small van or maybe something like a Kia Soul? It' a newish l200 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Well whether returned to their owners or not they will have to be got down - unless they go for the explosive demolition solution - knowing where it is that's unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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