Building my 109 CSW in Seattle (lots of questions)

[Seattle109]

Heh all,

As a long time Land Rover owner , it's finally time for me to build my 109 into the vehicle I imagine.

I've owned my 1983 County Station Wagon for 3 years and promised myself I wouldn't start hacking at it until I'd had some time to figure out what works for me and what I need to change. My vision is to replace my 2004 NAS D2 V8 as my primary Overland rig with the 109. One of the Members of this Forum recommended I join LR4X4 after I messaged him on his own private website regarding some drivability modifications made to his own 109. And so here I am

 

My 109 is an original 12 seater Station Wagon in pretty decent shape.  It does have a 200TDI fitted, (looks like a Steve Parker conversion) mated to the Series Transmission with a Fairey Overdrive. It has the Rover axle up front and a rear Salsbury. I bought it in the UK (Birmingham) and imported it here to Seattle, where I've been trundling around in it and generally using it as a Tractor.

Problems to address (and some questions)

Driveability - Driving the 109 in Seattle traffic is a hair raising experience. The Series box is very slow to shift smoothly, with the most frustrating element being the need to constantly be in an out of Overdrive. I don't mind the RHD so much but avoiding being run over is becoming tiresome. What do you guys think about switching out the gearbox to the "short bellhousing" R380 and connecting it to a 1.2 ratio LT230 converted to part time 4wd ? Currently I have the stock 4.7 ratio diffs, I'm not sure if i'd need to go to 4.11's or whether I could just run a larger tire size avoid revving the guts out of the motor at highway speeds?

 

stability - I'd like to broaden the track but keep the original axles. Thoughts on a negative offset, and wider wheel ? I'm planning on upgrading to disc brakes and power steering so i'm hoping that will address some of the issues associated with running a wider tire.

Suspension - Currently, the suspension is stock, which is wonderful because the bump stops are actually above the height of the crank pulley. Hit a big bump and take out the pulley! My thought was to fit the military shackles and bump stops to reclaim suspension travel. If i'm running the wider wheels, would you guys recommend i still go with Parabolics? Is there a better way to arrive at the 2" type lift that I've done on my coil sprung rovers and still get the best on road ride?

My goal is to try and achieve a driving experience comparable to my very tired 97 Discovery 1 SD with a manual transmission.  I can drive that beast for thousands of miles without getting unduly tired.

I'm going to run an Alucab Icarus poptop roof and transfer most of the overlanding gear from my D2 into the 109 once it's finished so I anticipate it being heavier than a regular 109CSW.

I do have a full parts truck D1 lying around, which has led to a lot of my questions as it's somewhat tempting to lift the 4.0 GEMS engine, transmission, axles and transfer case from it and graft it into my 109 (no restrictions here on how original the truck needs to be). The idea behind the V8 is that it's easy to source parts for it here in the USA and that my 200tdi vibrates like crazy.  I ordered the softer Bearmach mounts thinking that would solve my issue but can't see any way to easily replace the mounts that I currently have as the new ones are significantly bigger (and different shape entirely)

 

Thats a lot for my first post so thanks very much to folks who've read through the whole rambling missive. I'll post some pics of "Clare" once I get home from work.

 

Cheers!

 

 

[FridgeFreezer]

Welcome!

1st thing I'd say is STOP and have a long hard think about exactly what you want to end up with and why you're doing this - because it sounds a lot like you WANT to end up with a standard 200TDi 110 CSW, and that would be a LOT less painful all round than basically replacing every part of your (currently original-ish) Series in instalments and potentially hacking up an original truck rather than just trading it for the one you want.

Not that I can talk really as I've done a lot of what you're suggesting to my 109 - I went V8 + R380 + LT230 + 2WD + PAS + some different axles with disc brakes because they came along...

Even a 200TDi shouldn't be THAT slow in a Series, if you need to shift a lot or it's struggling I'd suggest a good coating of looking at / full service / mini-overhaul might be in order - they can gradually become complete dogs over time with neglect and people don't notice.

As you have a potential V8 donor laying about and fuel is as cheap as water (grrrr jealous) I'd say that's a reasonable option. You shouldn't need a short bellhousing 'box in a 109 as you've got length on your side - my R380 uses Disco/RR bellhousing a Defender tailcasting to put the shifters (roughly) in the right place.

As for your crank pulley hitting, I'd question the conversion if that's happening as I'm fairly sure it shouldn't... the V8 will likely need a remote oil filter kit to prevent the filter being clouted but that's completely normal, the crank pulley should NOT be in danger even if the bump-stops fell off!

Disc brakes on a Series are not a simple proposition, the rear Salisbury is an easier conversion but that's not adding much useful braking - you really want the fronts with discs but it's not easy and kits are spendy. Various options have been written about on here, both kits & DIY, so have a search around.

I run parabolics + Bilstein shocks and it's pretty good, but not coiler-good, in terms of ride. Coil conversions used to be done when coilers were expensive and Series were cheap but these days that's not the case and you're probably better off trading it for a coiler if you're determined to live the soft life. You'll never get the Disco / RR ride with a Series or Defender as the body is rigid-mounted and you're down by about half a ton of sound-proofing and soft-furnishings, all you can do is make it a bit better / quieter / warmer.

Grafting on Disco axles is not gaining you much (other than a lot of work), they're not really stronger, the back one is weaker in terms of payload rating, all you're gaining is gearing but you can solve that with tyre choice and by changing the LT230 gearing, I run 1.0003:1 high-range.

[jordan_meakin]

With your expectations, I think you've picked the wrong Landy. Try a Disco or a Range Rover classic. The amount of work to make a 109 drive like you describe is going to be unbelievable, back breaking and extremely uneconomical. They are for pottering, fun and tinkering. My opinion, anyway...

[Seattle109]

Thanks so much for the reply!

Believe it or not, getting a 200TDI CSW out here in Seattle is a very expensive proposition. One of the reasons that I've waited for 3 years to build my car is for exactly the reasons you mention. Today it's original(ish). Granted, I'd keep the parts I pull out of it, in case I ever wanted to return to stock but in it's current configuration, it's not really usable safely on American roads.  The 200 tdi engine is plenty fast for sure. It's far and away the strongest part that I have on the truck today. Once i'm into 4th, I can keep up with traffic. In fact, I've seen it up to 80mph GPS indicated on one stretch of Interstate in Texas, where I was trying to get out of the way of a Semi that was trying to run me over from behind.

However, in a culture dominated by powerful, (compared to my landie) automatic transmission cars, you just get swamped at take off from the traffic lights, and then people start cutting in front of you and slamming on the anchors at the next red light, right into your safety stopping zone. It's a fairly stressful driving experience.  

I'm not sure how else a 200TDI would install into a Series without the Crank pulley being directly over the top of the front axle. Maybe if you cut off the original mounts and welded on new ones then set the transmission further back in the car? Not sure. The only conversions that i've seen have utilized the existing factory petrol mounts. You end up losing the ability to run a viscous fan as well due to space concerns.

Thats a bummer that with Parabolics, you don't think that the ride is as good as on a Coiler. I was hoping to hear otherwise. I have a bunch of Land Rovers, but they're all Range Rover Classics, D1's and D2's with different vintages of Rover V8 so the Series is a new adventure and learning experience for sure. Mind me asking whose Parabolics you're running?

For brakes I was going to go with the Forbyne kit. They're in the same time zone as me, down in California . Expensive, yes, but it looks like a well engineered solution.

Regarding regearing your LT230, what ratio do you have in your diffs if you're running 1.0003:1? I'm hoping that I'll be able to find someone with a 200tdi , r380 and lt230 on here that can comment on which ratio they run in the transfer case and in their diffs.

Thanks for the confirmation about retaining my axles. The promise of 4 wheel disk brakes and a wider track is quite alluring but I'd written it off once I started looking into it. 

I've already resigned myself to a lot of soundproofing work in the truck once I've addressed the driveability issues.

[Seattle109]

23 minutes ago, jordan_meakin said:

With your expectations, I think you've picked the wrong Landy. Try a Disco or a Range Rover classic. The amount of work to make a 109 drive like you describe is going to be unbelievable, back breaking and extremely uneconomical. They are for pottering, fun and tinkering. My opinion, anyway...

Cheers for the comment!  Pretty good advice actually and should be required reading for anyone buying a Land Rover, especially when parts are only available from specialist parts suppliers because you own the car in a place where they were never sold.  Pottering, fun and tinkering pretty much about sums up what i've used the car for until now. It's about all its good for in its present configuration. That said, I've never really found any aspect of Land Rover ownership to be about economics, it's definitely more of a passion thing. I grew up loving Land Rovers, enjoyed driving MOD 109's when I was in the Navy and missed out on the final year of NAS D90 sales in 1997 when I emigrated to the USA.  I could conceivably find a 110 project car for under 20K USD, but it'll need just as much, if not more work done to it and at the end of the day, won't be a split window, rust free Series.

I do already have 2 LWB Classics and 4 Disco's (my wife's D4/Lr4 doesn't count). I like them as every day vehicles but they fall short for Overlanding.(IMHO) My white LWB just came back from a 6000 mile roadtrip tour of the American West. It definitely does better than the Disco as the flat roof allows for a lower profile rack and keeps the overall height of the rig down with the rooftop tent on board. To my knowledge noone makes a poptop for either generation of Disco or the LWB Classics, (crying shame and a missed opportunity for the LWB because the roof unbolts really easily) whereas for the 109/110 body there is a plethora of options.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Seattle109
addressed punctuation

[Seattle109]

Seeing as i’ve already talked about my white lwb, I figured i’d upload a photo. I took a rhino rack Pioneer Platform designed for a 110 and altered it for the shorter roofed LWB.

The result was a significantly more compact footprint that on my D2 and very usable. The big advantage to a pop top style roof vs a standalone roof top tent is the ability to stand up inside the car and that you can run a diesel heater over night.  (Which is really nice when camping st altitude)

[Bowie69]

You are beginning to make some of us feel rather green  

[David Sparkes]

What I'm reading here is that you want the looks of a split screen Series Land Rover, but the comfort and performance of a auto gearboxed coiler.
Performance in all aspects, speed, accessible acceleration, cornering stability, comfort, braking.
If my perception is correct your best starting point is surely 'a auto gearboxed coiler chassis', onto which you graft the split screen Series bodywork?

Not that I can help with how you best engineer that.

Regards

[Seattle109]

I did consider both a Hybrid build, bolting my existing body into a RRC LWB frame and ordering a new galvanized coiler chassis but decided against it.

I’d like to retain the 200tdi if I can reduce the engine vibration through the frame. I love the economy of the engine. The fuel range of my 109 is 2.5x greater than in the Discovery V8 I plan to replace. That’s a big deal for me as i’m often more than 200 miles from a petrol/gas station.

A more modern manual transmission would allow me to keep up with traffic without going to an automatic. (Or at least I can in my D1 with 240,000 miles on the R380 in that.)

Regarding couler vs Leaf springs I actually like and prefer the idea of staying with Leaf springs. What i’m unsure of, is whether the combination of Parabolics plus the Military bumpstops and 1 ton shackles is a bad idea or not. If anyone has run this configuration i’d love to hear about it. I did a quick search on this site but didn’t find anything.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Seattle109
Fixed typos (composing from my phone)

[FridgeFreezer]

If you want to win the traffic-light Grand Prix and enjoy (slightly more) relaxed quiet cruising I'd really look at the aforementioned V8 from your donor Disco. Driven gently you'll knock on the door of 20MPG (uk) on a run if you stick with fuel injection (I will plug Megsasquirt-v8 here as it's what I use on all my V8's), and it will be effortless - you won't have to stir the stick nearly as often as it's got a broader range of torque.

While I'm not deluded enough to say the parabolics are as good as coils, they're not so different when you consider the overall comfort level of the vehicle - I've driven the 109 thousands of miles on bad roads and it's fine - it's got no soundproofing or door seals so it's never going to be a Bentley. Compared to a similarly-specced Defender (as in, stripped out not kitted for comfort) you'd probably struggle to care about the difference as you'd be too busy being uncomfortable for all the other reasons!

The springs are TI Console (very old now) but I'd recommend going for the bets quality you can get as I've heard bad things about cheap ones in terms of fit & quality. Shocks are Bilstein 5100 which make a MASSIVE difference compared to the cheap old ProComps.

Diffs are 5.99:1 because portals overall high-range gearing on 37's comes out close to a standard Disco/RRC with 1.222:1 LT230 & standard tyres. Low range is lower than standard which is nice.

If you're not doing heavy off-road or abusing it, sticking with the Series diff ratio + using a 1:1 LT230 gives you a decent high-range plus very low low-range.

Regarding soundproofing, the biggest difference I've found is making the floor & transmission tunnel fit nicely, plus some heavy foil-backed insulation made a big difference in the Ambulance. The transmission makes a hell of a noise (and a lot of heat wafts up there) at motorway speeds.

Oh my PAS is a Disco-2 box which is unusual but supposedly stronger, certainly it's very nice and works well.

[Seattle109]

Oh Portals.... (very envious) 

its very tempting to lift the entire drivetrain from my donor car. I’ve held off because I didn’t want to start cutting at my frame and with the 200tdi install you can mount it to the existing mounts.(struggling with the idea of irreversible change in case I ever want to revert the car back to stock)

your reply does give me the hope that my plan may deliver what I’m looking for. It’ll never be a modern car but I want to be able to drive it for a series of consecutive 600-800 mile days while driving to “the fun stuff”.

I’ll order a set of Bilsteins. I’ved used them on my RRC for years and really like them.

regarding Parabolics, I’ve been looking at the Rocky Mountain ones.

[FridgeFreezer]

Yep, driven a few long days and nights in the 109! Biggest issue is the loud exhaust (my own fault) and the fact the V8 means you've got to stop for fuel more often - if I was doing more overlanding in it I'd add a 2nd tank for peace of mind but these days it's not going too far from the nearest petrol station.

There isn't an off-the-shelf Bilstein 5100 for the 109 so you might need to check & work out what you need before you jump, you might also find higher-spec ones are affordable in the US.

I'm not certain what the best approach to fitting a V8 is, with regards to mounts etc. - mine started as a 6cyl so everything was lower & further back, and I replicated that to keep the CoG near the centre, there's a big gap in front of the engine. Engine/trans mounts could be bolt-on, just through sleeved holes on the chassis so not too much "hacking about"... but if you've got a decent fabricator on hand it all becomes a bit academic as you can fabricate it back to standard if needed!

[Seattle109]

I made the loud exhaust mistake with my white lwb. I installed a full stainless Magnaflow sysrem and the thing drones me half to death  

I’ll need to take a look at my engine mounts this weekend but I’m pretty sure that they’re welded on. 

[AV8R]

My 1963  SWB is running an LT77 shorty and LT230 (2 and 4 WD, 1.003:1) behind a V6 Ford. Diffs are 4,7 :1, tyres 255/85R16. All this makes for comfortable cruising and a real low low range. There's no soundproofing other than earplugs. Easy to keep up with traffic but my 88" is just over 1400Kg empty (low weight helps a lot).

I am using British Spring parabolics with HD 109 shocks up front and Disco 2 rearshocks (mounts drilled to accept the Series mounts), Longer militairy length shackles are fitted, tapered shim on the front axle to restore caster. The Pro Comp shocks that came with the springs were horrible and I returned those to the supplier after a 15 Km test ride.

Yes , it is quite a decent ride ! For a 1963 truck ! It will never be as comfortable as my 2011 daily driver but it gives me pleasure driving it, knowing I've built it this way.

[larna86]

Been reading this with some interest and having built a 88 series hybrid on a coil chassis I thought give you my thoughts. I run a Disco 200Tdi with Disco transfer box giving the higher ratio for the road. Instead of the 4.71 diff I used the 4.11 ratio, though I had the advantage of putting ARB lockers in at the same time.

It happily runs at 65-70mph on the road so fine with keeping up with traffic though never going to win race or be first off the lights. What you seem to want will be a lot of work and not much left of the series vehicle, but with enough time, money and effort/enthusiasm anything is possible. Good luck and let us know how you get on.

 

 

[Seattle109]

Some great responses on my thread! I want to thank all of you for opinions and contributions. It's really valuable because I don't have the luxury of showing up at my local weekend club and sticking my head under someone elses car that approximates what im looking for

My idea is firming up now. My existing Disco 200tdi mated to a short bellhousing R380, part time Lt230 (with the Disco 1.2 ratio) then change the diff ratio in my axles to 4.11's. I was going to service them anyway before I started putting miles onto the car.

The bonus to this strategy is that I can rebuild the petrol 2 1/4 i have sitting in my garage and R&R the Series gearbox and Fairey at my leisure. I was going to get the diff gears from GBR in Utah, the LT230 kit and short bellhousing R380 from Ashcroft and then if i need custom driveshafts i can get them made here locally.

Larna86, with your Disco engined 200tdi, how did you address engine vibration? Are you still using the stock petrol mounts?

I found this Forum after spending many hours reading Nicks Landrover site (http://www.nickslandrover.co.uk/new-engine-mounts-cure-vibration/) I managed to get hold of a set of the Bearmach mounts but the softer round bearmach mounts don't fit (wrong shape and are larger than the existing petrol mounts).

I'll get some parts ordered and start a build thread for folks interested once I have something to report.

 

[larna86]

I won't lie, the 200tdi does rattle but I followed the advice from others on the forum And I bought genuine 200tdi engine mounts. I went for the round ones and I don't regret it. Having spoken to others who went "blue box" they all say they wish hadn't.

When you do the instal spend some time and money noise insulating and preventing rattles. I didn't and regretted it so much I went back and did it but it was considerably harder to do later than at the start.

[Seattle109]

3 hours ago, larna86 said:

I won't lie, the 200tdi does rattle but I followed the advice from others on the forum And I bought genuine 200tdi engine mounts. I went for the round ones and I don't regret it. Having spoken to others who went "blue box" they all say they wish hadn't.

When you do the instal spend some time and money noise insulating and preventing rattles. I didn't and regretted it so much I went back and did it but it was considerably harder to do later than at the start.

This may be the stupidest question ever, but how did you fit the round mounts on? (They’re significantly bigger

[larna86]

I had to widen the "slots" for the mounts on the engine and again to those welded to the chassis. I think the chassis mounts may have been welded after test fitting the engine. TBH I can't really remember but i don't remember it bit being a big issue at the time. 🤔

[Soren Frimodt]

On 3/1/2018 at 10:20 AM, Bowie69 said:

You are beginning to make some of us feel rather green  

And jealous!

Great trucks you have there, I sure wouldn't mind a LWB RRC parked in my garage 

[Seattle109]

6 hours ago, Soren Frimodt said:

And jealous!

Great trucks you have there, I sure wouldn't mind a LWB RRC parked in my garage 

Want to buy my white one? It’s ready for a new owner. 

I’m going to order the new parabolic springs and shocks this week. The 1 ton shackles and military bumpstops arrived yesterday. I also heard back from Dave Ashcroft. He thinks that if I regear the diffs to 4.11 i’ll be able to run the 1.2 disco transfer case and achieve a decent compromise for driveability.

[Snagger]

Hi Robbie

Knowing Seattle (I do go there periodically on work), I can see why you're having trouble with the transmission.  I know it cuts against the grain of a modern American petrol-head, but I reckon your best transmission for the city would be an automatic from a Discovery, with the LT230 and 4.1 or (at a pinch) 3.54 diffs, but that isn't very characteristic of the vehicle.  US cities are even more stop-start for traffic than in the UK, and those hills would require a lot of gear changes.  Failing that, an R380 and 1.4:1 (Defender) LT230 would be a good second alternative, again with 3.54s.  I don't think you'd enjoy the set up I have in mind for my 109 of standard transmission with overdrive and 4.1 diffs just because of those hills and crossroad junctions.  I had more of the open country driving in mind when we talked.  Just so you know, a ZF4HP auto with a 1.22 transfer box (RR and Disco) has a very similar top gear to a SIII with overdrive in high range, and lower first in low range (OD disengaged), so the gearing range is spread well over what you have already got, but it'll handle a lot more torque and deal better with taller diffs than the Series box.

Springs will be sorted with decent quality parabolics.  I have TI Console (now Heystee), and the ride was far more comfortable than my wife's standard 2009 90XS.  Given your location, Rocky Mountain springs would be perfect, with two or three leafs in the front and four at the back.

Engine vibration of a 200 in a Series is a well known issue, but using the softer Bearmach mounts that Rich Hall at Glencoyne.co.uk  sells helps enormously (remember to replace the transmission mounts too).  You can also bolt a block of steel to the aircon compressor mount on the timing case, which I found made a fair improvement by reducing the harmonic frequency of the engine mass (LR bolted a mass damper to the Discovery II's LT230 to acheive the same thing, which you could also do if you fit one).

A Discovery LT230 with 4.1 diffs will have comparable high range to a Defender, but with significantly lower low range.  It's a more expensive and laborious way of achieving the same thing as using standard Defender gearings, but if you need the really low low range, it'd work well.  KAM Diffs made 4.1 Salisbury c&p gears for a while, but they have closed down and I think they'd stopped making Salisbury gears a while before.  Ashcroft only make Rover gear sets.  I got a second hand Dana 60 4.1 gear set on ebay with a 10-spline pinion (was told it was from a Ford, but unsure), but I don't know for certain that the pinion dimensions for bearings and prop flange match the Salisbury pinion.  The Dana crown gear uses 1/2 bolts instead of the M12 of the Salisbury, so the diff bolt holes will need a small tweak.

As Fridge says, the disc brake conversion  is simple enough at the back, but not the front, needing expensive kits.  Zeus Engineering do kits that can be installed on either axle and are far cheaper than any others I have seen.  However, like Fridge says, the drum system will stop the car just as quickly if in proper order - it just needs periodic cleaning and adjustment, and bleeding is more difficult on the front end.  I don't think it's a worthwhile conversion unless you're already swapping the axles for Defender (or other) units.

 

Very envious of the RRCs - you didn't mention them before!

 

Welcome to the forum.

[FridgeFreezer]

5 hours ago, Snagger said:

A Discovery LT230 with 4.1 diffs will have comparable high range to a Defender, but with significantly lower low range.  It's a more expensive and laborious way of achieving the same thing as using standard Defender gearings

I'm not sure about that, if you get to retain the stock 109 diffs it saves having to swap in aftermarket ratios or even just the hassle of swapping internals of the Salisbury as (if memory serves) the Series aren't a straight swap for Defender ones, it's only the Stage 1 V8 Salisbury  that suits. 1.2:1 LT230's are way more common too.

That reminds me though - Stage 1 V8 / later 6cyl brakes + early Defender/RR servo are an easier path to decent braking on a Series than a disc conversion if you're mostly on-road. Not as great as discs but more than capable enough.

[Snagger]

12 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

I'm not sure about that, if you get to retain the stock 109 diffs it saves having to swap in aftermarket ratios or even just the hassle of swapping internals of the Salisbury as (if memory serves) the Series aren't a straight swap for Defender ones, it's only the Stage 1 V8 Salisbury  that suits. 1.2:1 LT230's are way more common too.

That reminds me though - Stage 1 V8 / later 6cyl brakes + early Defender/RR servo are an easier path to decent braking on a Series than a disc conversion if you're mostly on-road. Not as great as discs but more than capable enough.

The Discovery LT230 with 4.71s would be quite low geared.  That LT would be 1.22: vs the 1.15: of the Series, so with 4.71s and an LT77 which overdrives by around 20% compared to a Series' overdrives 28%, and I think you'd have a final ratio not far of standard Series without overdrive.  The 1.22 LT would really need 3.9-4.1 diffs to give it similar final gearing in hihg as a Defender.  The reason I say it's an expensive method is the cost of buying the C&P gears, which will come in at about $1000 new before even paying for fitting or getting the bearings, seals and other bits involved in building up diffs.  That's a lot compared to just getting the right LT230 to start with.

I did a few spread sheets on Ashcroft's gearing calculator to consider options for my 109, and the ZF with 1.2 transfer box gave very similar top gearing to the Series with overdrive, and by using 4.1 diffs, it'd come out very close to a standard Defender's 5th high.  Because of my low range mod, my low range 1st with 4.1s would be close to a Defender's 1st low, too, if I remember correctly.  It was just the ZF combination that had a much higher first low, no trouble going up with the torque converter, but could be an issue going down with the lost engine braking.

A 1.002: LT230 (from a V8?) would fix that with 4.71 diffs, but I think they're pretty rare.

[AV8R]

4 hours ago, Snagger said:

A 1.002: LT230 (from a V8?) would fix that with 4.71 diffs, but I think they're pretty rare.

Yes, they can be found in RRC's with 3-speed automatic.

I found a brand new set of the the intermediate and final drive gears at Ashcroft's . Fitted them to a low milage 1,4:1 LT230 from a Defender whose owner wanted a 1.2:1 box and opted for a brand new Q series. It does a great job now in my Series IIa. Having the part time 4WD kit installed too, It retains the Series style drive train philosophy. Free-wheeling hubs and all. Mind you, 5th gear is like an overdrive now. On long uphill's on the highway I really need to switch to 4th to keep the engine revving in the power band.