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gkd000

New (to me) P38 - 2.5 DSE 1998 - Issues Advice

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Hello folks,

Always wanted a P38 and bought one yesterday and had it delivered last night.  Been going over it today and there are a number of issues that I can't figure out (and many that I can and will sort).  Don't know if you can help / advise?

1) Windows / sunroof don't work properly.  Messages "not set" on dash for all.  I can't do the up/down reset as they don't appear to work logically.  I can get the drivers window down and up but it doesn't reset the error code then I can't move on to the other windows / sunroof.  I have had the passenger window stuck down and the sunroof stuck open (not ideal in a UK winter) but managed to get them closed again by trial and error rather than anything else! - Am I missing something obvious (I have had the switch unit out and cleaned it up, made no difference but was worth doing as it was filthy)

2) Locking issue.  Driver and front passenger locks don't work on fob (rears do).  So have to use key to lock driver's door and manually put button up/down inside the car for the passenger lock

3) Radio / CD only shows 4 double lines on display and does not work (doesn't ask for code)

Plenty of other issues but I can sort those, just can't work out the above.

It is a 98 2.5 DSE and is actually quite tidy (or it will be once it's had a good scrub up).

Bought as a project so not too worried but just like to get the issues sorted.

Thanks for any advice.

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1) They need to be set. You do this by (when closed) opening it all the way, holding the button there for a second or two, then closing it all the way, and holding the button until you get "WINDOW SET" on the message centre. Same for the sunroof. You'll need to do this every time the battery is disconnected.

2) Actuator is broken, easy to swap out and a second-hand one from a breaker should be fairly cheap.

3) Not sure about that one, probably broken. You should be able to get a second-hand one.

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Thanks elbekko.

1) I have tried the reset method but it does not appear to work.  The drivers side window doesn't reset and then the others can't be accessed (there is a lot of clicking but not up/down action - the windows also appear to judder alot if I do get them to temporarily work) - Any other ideas? 

2) I'll order an actuator

3) I feared as much with the radio, i'll get another.

Really appreciate the help.

 

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1) the window winder motors have stripped the teeth on the armeture, new motor/s required.

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Posted (edited)

1) Can't do the window reset as they have a mind of their own and mainly don't work at all.  It is not mechanical but definitely electrical, and ideas - could it be the switch panel itself (I don't think it is) - is there a relay that could be causing the issue?  It I use the window off switch there is a lot of relay type clicking.......

2) As above (will get the actuator)

3) The lines on the radio mean it is in wair mode, so I think I can sort that one

Edited by gkd000

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This thread needs pics!

All the other windows should set though even if the front one is broken.

Whereabouts in the country are you? 

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I am on the Wirral.

I will have to return to the windows issue as I now have a more pressing issue:

I have changed the battery to the key and now can't start the vehicle.  I don't have the EAK code.  Will I need to get this from LR or is there any other way I can get the key to work?

I am learning quickly that this going to be a difficult relationship with the car, but not too bothered as I bought as a project / weekend car anyway.  Just want to get it started now and sort the various issues as I go.

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Yes, need to talk to LR for EKA...

You used to have to provide proof of ownership, but I know a mate managed to get round that once!

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I will talk to LR about the EKA.

On  positive note, I have managed to get rid of all of the "Not Set" window/sunroof warnings.  Still a bit hit and miss but I think it may just be dirty connectors as I have removed the main connector to the window switch panel a few times and it seems a bit better, what I can't understand is the passenger window will go up but at the same time the sunroof opens on the window button (but  not always!).  I am thinking that it might be worth just changing the switch panel.

Thoughts?

 

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OK,

So I have now sorted the radio problem with a code bought online.

I also have the EAK code but it doesn't work and I am keycode locked at the moment.  Could this be because I need to change the front locks before the EAK will be properly recognised?  (See point 2 in my original post).

Also, do I need to do the 4 x anticlockwise rotations before entering the code?  I have tried with and without and no joy.

Would love to be able to start the car (I know it starts as I drove it onto the drive when it was delivered).

Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

 

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Yes the EKA process must be followed exactly. EXACTLY what that procedure is will depend on the year of your car. Do you have a paper handbook for your car? If so, treat that as your guide, rather than any handbook included as part of your RAVE download. I suggest you update your Forum profile to say what year and model your 38A is, because then those details are always visible when a responder needs to see them. Note I said PROFILE, not Signature.

When you twist the key as part of the EKA unlock process a light should glow on the dash to confirm each individual key turn has been recognised.

ISTR this light is the indicator signal in the centre of the 'message centre'. This can be difficult to see when stood outside the door, with the window closed.
Unlock the door with the key blade, wind the window fully down, then start the EKA process with your head poked through the window space so you can confirm that each turn of the key is recognised. The point here is that you cannot rely on the lock mechanism microswitches, so first prove they are working.

As you are in Key Code lockout you have to WAIT for this to time out before making another attempt. I do not recall if the ignition needs to be on while this time-out process runs, what does the paper handbook or RAVE Manuals say? Again, I've forgottem, the details could be in the Workshop Manual Electrical section, or in the Electrical Troubleshooting Manual.

Regards.

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Thanks David, I have followed the process exactly with the confirmation on each key turn, mine is a 1997 2.5 DSE.  I'll put it on the profile.

I am stumped.  Do you think the issue mentioned in point 2 (both front locks didn't open on fob when it was running) will be the issue?

Thanks.

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It's strange that you needed the EKA after changing the battery. Procedure should be in the manual, but yes, it's a pain.

If you're getting confirmation on the dash, the microswitches are working. Just because the actuator isn't, doesn't mean the microswitches aren't.

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Hmmm, then if I am getting confirmation of each key turn on the dash (sidelight icon flashing after each turn) and it's not working I am at a loss.  Is there any other way to get it started.  If I invested in a Nanocom (gulp) would this be able to reset everything so I can get it going.  It's all very frustrating at the moment.

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I am relying on memory here, suggesting that you should confirm details with reference to the Workshop Manual and ETM. Reference my recalling an indicator light, when it was in fact the sidelight warning light.

When you say the front locks don't operate off the fob I'm going to read into the phrase that the rear door latches DO respond to the fob.
My recollection is that the rear door latches are triggered on a different BECM circuit to the front door latches, so that may explain why the front and rear latches are operating in different fashions.

Again my recollection, is that the BECM triggers the Drivers Door Latch on it's own circuit, which, when operated, then triggers the Front Passenger Door Latch.
As you have 'proved' the microswitches in the drivers door latch the resultant conclusion suggests a fault either in the BECM, or more likely, in the wiring from the BECM to the door latch.

There are two 'common' points of failure.
One is where wiring runs underneath the footwell carpet, if this area gets damp the wiring can corrode. Once you have exposed the wiring, look to see if the insulation on each wire is smooth or knobbly, like varicose veins. The knobbly ones are the corroded ones.

The second  place to look is the connections behind the RH kick panel of the Drivers foot well. Again, if these get wet they corrode to the point of failure, and this is the route taken by the wiring going into the door itself. ISTR that there is enough slack to pull the connections through the hole in the A pillar, but this is only likely to work if the wiring is in good condition. If the wiring / connectors are corroded you might end up with one or more loose wire ends in your hand.

The manuals will give you the wire colours and the particular BECM plug and pin number. The manuals even has pictures (photos, not line drawings) of each connector in place in the car.

I know nothing about the Nanocom, but like any electrical device, it is reliant on the car parts being in good condition. If you do decide to use an OBD connected device, be aware that the wiring and pins to this socket are another point of corrosion damage.

Regards.

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8 hours ago, gkd000 said:

Hmmm, then if I am getting confirmation of each key turn on the dash (sidelight icon flashing after each turn) and it's not working I am at a loss.  Is there any other way to get it started.  If I invested in a Nanocom (gulp) would this be able to reset everything so I can get it going.  It's all very frustrating at the moment.

IIRC the Nanocom can't get the BeCM out of lockdown mode. But I could be wrong.

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Think it is time to get the BECM sent of for reprogramming, as I am at an impass, and all because I changed a battery!  

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Are you sure you did nothing else? I've disconnected my battery many times, never needed an EKA. Only had to do it once, on another car.

Have you tried entering the EKA in reverse? Turn left when you're supposed to turn right?

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I'll try the reverse EKA method tomorrow (keycode locked at the mo as tried too many times today). I changed the fob battery on the same day.  Beyond that not done anything.

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In case it helps, I have copied the EKA sequences into a Word Document.
Note that the Workshop Manual entry is more detailed than the Owners Manual entry, as the Workshop Manual highlights the pre and post 96MY variations.
'Up To 96MY' and 'From 96MY'.

I know you say you have a '97 vehicle, but is that the first date of registration rather than the build date?
Also check the VIN code, it will start SALLP and end with A. What is the letter that immediately precedes the last A?
C - 1986 MY       D - 1987 MY
E - 1988 MY       F - 1989 MY
G - 1990 MY       H - 1991 MY
J - 1992 MY       K - 1993 MY
L - 1994 MY       M - 1995 MY
T - 1996 MY       V - 1997 MY


Note that for 'Up to 96MY' it says
" If five incorrect attempts are made to enter the code, the BeCM enters a ten minute ’lockout’ period. "
but that for 'From 96MY' it says
" The number of incorrect attempts is reduced to three and the lockout period increased to thirty minutes ".

How many attempts do you get before the lockout is invoked?

Does lockout last for 10 minutes or 30 minutes?

Regards.

EKA Sequences off RAVE v11-2.docx

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2 hours ago, gkd000 said:

...  I changed the fob battery on the same day. ...

By changing the fob battery it's possible that Key Resynchronisation also needs to take place. What I think will happen is that EKA may get you into the vehicle (and is shown to be effective by being able to remotely lock and unlock the car by use of the fob only), but the engine will not start because the engine ECU is not in synchronisation with the BECM / Fob.

Just in case I have updated the document to include the different resynchronisation procedures, pre and post 97MY.

Regards.

EKA & Resynch. Sequences off RAVE v11-2.docx

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Hi,

Some progress.  I tried the reverse EKA method and then put the key in the ignition and pressed the unlock fob key and it now turns the car over, so I'm getting closer.  However, despite turning over it doesn't start.

I believe this is because the BECM and ECU need to be re-synced - how do I do this?

I have also solved the erratic window behaviour by changing the switch panel.  So all in all I am getting there - just need to sort the starting issue now and everything else I can do as an ongoing working project.

The car was registered in January 1998 and the preceding the last A is a W.  The lockout period is half an hour after three incorrect attempts.

Thanks for all the help thus far, I really do appreciate it.  I'm getting there :-)

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I don't know where else you are getting information from, but I'm certain that if the starter motor turns it proves the security handshake between the BECM and the engine ECU is good; there is thus no need to re-synch them.

In this weather I'd say the prime reason for not starting is several heater plugs not working.
Checking the control unit is working is easy; is 12v present at a plug while the orange light is lit on the dash? Note that the plugs will continue to be powered for some time after the light goes out.
Checking that the plugs are actually heating properly is more difficult, if you have the facility to measure the current they are rated at 17A each.
I'd consider it not unreasonable to buy a full set and change them all. Bear in mind you may need new inlet manifold gaskets as well.

This link gives a simple 'How To'.

Regards.

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I have ordered some new glowplugs and gaskets and will let you know how it goes!  Thanks. 

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Glow plugs out, a couple looked wet, all had black deposits which wiped off.  All looked physically OK (not cracked etc).  New ones arrive in a couple of days so hopefully that'll sort the starting issue (?).  I noticed that the fuel filter housing top is cracked, would this have any negative effect on the running of the car?  

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