Turbo upgrade

[ZIKOMO]

Many thanks!

[ianmayco68]

Hi all , well put the boost pin in yesterday to try that but for some reason I seem to loose power when pulling off before the turbo kicks in but went well on higher revs it used to do this before I fitted the uprated turbo that's why I ditched the boost pin before , so decided to ditch that idea after that and reading Red90's post on what they are actually good for so when I got home from work today I tweaked the pump . 

Just to answer John's question this morning on the way to work I gave it some wellie on a long flat straight EGT's were about 650c accelerating hard 1.0 bar boost then when I reached 60mph I eased off and kept her steady at that speed for a mile EGT's dropped to about 400/500c boost was under 0.5bar but now I've tweaked the pump I will check them again next week .

So pump tweak, fuel pin is turned to max , star wheel has been lowered 1 1/2 turns and the stop screw under the little tin cap on the top of the pump has been lowered 1 1/2 turns and I have no smoke at all  didn't touch the max power screw on the back of the pump as the guide I used said even a slight turn can cause EGTs to rise quickly and it to smoke , so decided to leave that adjustment. So after tweaking I took her for a quick spin . Wow she goes well accelerates good  through each gear was really impressed , will post up how she goes next week on our journey's to and from work . Got a transfer box to rebuild tomorrow but might just get the urge to go for a long drive to test her out , we'll see.

A question for the more experienced pump tweakers reading this ,should I tweak the pump a bit more ? If yes how much further would you turn each bit ? And anyone that's tweaked your pump I knackered the tin cap getting it out looked like it hadn't been removed for years anyone done this and can recommend a replacement cap ?

So all in all gents I'm still very happy with the turbo , and will post up again next week .

cheers Ian

[reb78]

Since you have an EGT gauge fitted I would be tempted to adjust the pump pressure screw by eighth turn increments. Go for a drive. Stop adjusting before it becomes excessively smoky at full boost or back off if it does. Having done a few, I adjust it by about quarter of a turn now, but if you haven’t done it before best to be more moderate. 

[Anderzander]

Here is a guy talking about how he fitted one to a 300tdi.

 

he has another video talking about tuning the pump - and recommends starting with the max power screw as it seems to effectively work like a main jet in a carburettor - and then adjusting the others to tune the rest of the Rev range.

[Jocklandjohn]

3 hours ago, ianmayco68 said:

Just to answer John's question this morning on the way to work I gave it some wellie on a long flat straight EGT's were about 650c accelerating hard 1.0 bar boost then when I reached 60mph I eased off and kept her steady at that speed for a mile EGT's dropped to about 400/500c boost was under 0.5bar but now I've tweaked the pump I will check them again next week .

 

Thats pretty consistent with what I'm seeing (thicker intercooler, Turner head, hybrid turbo @ 1.1 BAR). 

Sounds like you've got it pretty much sorted bar a wee bit tweaking. Good job!

[ianmayco68]

Good video Anderzander , will see how she performs over the next few days Richard then I might tweak the power screw , which normally means I won’t be able to resist having a play  .

Cheers John , that’s next on my list a port and polished head but there’s a firm not far from me that does it so going to try them .

[Jocklandjohn]

And if not already running good quality fuel (eg BP Advanced) give that a try too - it does make a difference in my humble opinion.

[Ex Member]

To properly test, you need a long hill that you can hold sustained throttle for a decent amount of time, like 5 minutes.  Start off around 2000 rpm and slowly accelerate to as high as you can get away with.

You want to see the EGT numbers while at sustained full throttle and also see how this changes with rpm.  With mine, I find that maximum EGTs are around 3000 rpm.  It goes lower below and above that point.

The end goal of the adjustments is to control these EGT numbers.  You want to try and not let it stay above 720 C for long periods.  Some people set their pump up so that it can just get there.  Others set it so that it will go higher and back off the throttle a little when it gets too high.

[Ex Member]

What is of interest with this new turbo is the boost versus rpm.  DO a slow acceleration from 1000 rpm and let us know when boost starts to build and when it hits peak.

[ianmayco68]

Hi all , things didn't go to plan this morning went out and started putting my transfer box back together and while torqueing the diff bolts down one twisted off so until 8 new ones arrive next week that jobs on hold . So decided to take the 110 for a run of about 20 mile to see what the adjustments I did yesterday were like , she goes really well plenty of acceleration and a totally more comfortable drive than it was before . What I did notice is that the EGT's have dropped slightly but the boost has risen slightly accelerating to 60MPH EGT's went to 600c boost 1.0bar , when holding at 60mph EGT's dropped to 400c or just above but boost was at 0.6/0.7 bar . Also when accelerating hard for a length of time on the flat and on the few short hills you go up on this road the EGT's never went above 600c or only just over , so well happy and no smoke what so ever. John I do use shell or esso when I'm near them but use supermarket diesel a lot as well but I always put Millers additive if I go there , but you're right when I drive the F-in-laws TD5 I can tell the difference in how she runs when supermarket fuel is put in over any length of time.

22 minutes ago, Red90 said:

What is of interest with this new turbo is the boost versus rpm.  DO a slow acceleration from 1000 rpm and let us know when boost starts to build and when it hits peak.

Will try this tomorrow and let you know how I get on , unfortunately we haven't got any hills round here like that Red90 . We've got short steep hills , 30 seconds to the top but no long steep ones that I know of . I had the injection pump serviced by a friend of a friend who worked at a local diesel specialists the max power screw had some wire twisted round it and a blob of solder on the end , so I'm hoping that it won't be locked with anything else but do I need to put a screw driver in the screw to hold it in place while I undo the lock nut ? Did remove the wire this afternoon but didn't want to start messing till I'd made sure , also do I turn the settings I've changed back then move the max power screw and start again with the adjustments or am I ok to just keep turning it slightly till I get smoke then back it off?

cheers Ian

[Ex Member]

If you only get to 600C (assuming the thermocouple is before the turbo), then you still have a bunch more power.  Make sure your throttle is going all the way to the stops on the pump when pressed to the floor.

[ianmayco68]

Yes thermocouple is bang in the middle of the exhaust manifold were all 4 outlets join before going into the turbo . this could get scary going faster than it does in a defender lol .

6 minutes ago, Red90 said:

Make sure your throttle is going all the way to the stops on the pump when pressed to the floor.

Do you mean setting the throttle cable by , engine off someone in drivers seat accelerator pedal to the floor then taking all the slack out of the cable ?

[Ex Member]

I mean when you press the throttle pedal all the way to the floor, make sure it is moving the lever to the maximum stop in the injection pump.

Do you know your maximum speed?  That is a good indicator of power levels.

[ianmayco68]

12 minutes ago, Red90 said:

I mean when you press the throttle pedal all the way to the floor, make sure it is moving the lever to the maximum stop in the injection pump

Sorry I don't know what you mean the max stop in the pump , still new to this game .

Before I did the tweaks and fitted the new chra it got to 60 ok then to 70 took a bit of effort . will take her for a run down the A50 tomorrow see what she can do . She does feel to have a lot more go now,  have had her to 65 on a country road but  then needed to slow down.

[Anderzander]

When you push the pedal down it pulls a cable / or rod that pulls a lever on the injection pump. I’d when the pedal is flat to the floor the lever could still travel further ... then you aren’t getting full throttle.

hows that ? 

[ianmayco68]

Ah got it now the lever the throttle cable attaches to  . The bit that through me was the In bit , thought Red90 meant inside the pump .

8 minutes ago, ianmayco68 said:

the maximum stop in the injection pump

Will check that tomorrow but I don't think it will be , can I move it wright to the end of it's adjustment ?

[ianmayco68]

Hi all , right did the slow acceleration test after many attempts, every time I tried a car would appear behind me and they don’t hang around on these country roads but managed to see boost is kicking in between 1500 and 1800 , the gauges aren’t next to each other so it’s hard to be exact. Didn’t manage to catch the peak but will try again tomorrow, it’s hard to keep watching 2 gauges and driving at the same time.

On to Red90’s question took her down the A50 on the way home tonight, got her to 70mph but wouldn’t go any more EGT’s were steady at 550/600 ,revs 3000 stayed like that for between 5/10 Miles  , but if a tried to accelerate past 70 she wouldn’t go any faster but EGT’s shot up to 700c .

 

[Jocklandjohn]

26 minutes ago, ianmayco68 said:

Hi all , right did the slow acceleration test after many attempts, every time I tried a car would appear behind me and they don’t hang around on these country roads but managed to see boost is kicking in between 1500 and 1800 , the gauges aren’t next to each other so it’s hard to be exact. Didn’t manage to catch the peak but will try again tomorrow, it’s hard to keep watching 2 gauges and driving at the same time.

On to Red90’s question took her down the A50 on the way home tonight, got her to 70mph but wouldn’t go any more EGT’s were steady at 550/600 ,revs 3000 stayed like that for between 5/10 Miles  , but if a tried to accelerate past 70 she wouldn’t go any faster but EGT’s shot up to 700c .

 

Thats around what I'm seeing too. Why not use your phone to video the gauges and shout the speed at it if it's not filming the speedo as well, then you can clearly see/hear what the EGT/Revs are against speedo.

[Ex Member]

70 is kind of depressing.  You should be able to make 80 at least.

[reb78]

Yes^^ that is a little dissapointing. I wonder why? My 200tdi on stock turbo with tweaked pump will make 85 fairly easily. 

[ianmayco68]

I’ve never actually pushed her to see how fast she’d go before, but even before the new chra she struggled over 60 which is disappointing.

 She gets to 70 fine ,I would even say easily like I said above she sat at 70 for about 5/10 Miles with no problem EGT’s at 550/600 . It’s like there’s a restrictor fitted to stop it going above that . Do you think turning the max power screw will up the top speed ?

[Jocklandjohn]

47 minutes ago, ianmayco68 said:

I’ve never actually pushed her to see how fast she’d go before, but even before the new chra she struggled over 60 which is disappointing.

 She gets to 70 fine ,I would even say easily like I said above she sat at 70 for about 5/10 Miles with no problem EGT’s at 550/600 . It’s like there’s a restrictor fitted to stop it going above that . Do you think turning the max power screw will up the top speed ?

It probably will but the EGT will rise across the range too. Have you tried all the rotation permutations on the normal boost pin? 

This is also very interesting:  https://nas-row.com/showthread.php?t=254&page=

Is your lift pump ok?

Edited January 16, 2018 by Jocklandjohn

[ianmayco68]

Wow , very interesting read but very technical I don’t know wether I’d want to start messing around in my injection pump like that. But shows what can be achieved, but may be to highly tuned for a daily driver but will keep an eye on that thread some very interesting post will go back and read it again a few times to digest it properly.

Have just fitted an electric lift pump , same one as Richard and seems to be working fine . The fuel pin is set to the widest setting, haven’t really tried it on any other . What should be the highest she should rev to when in gear and travelling?

[ianmayco68]

I think that I need to take the adjustments I’ve made back to stock and then adjust the max power screw and then adjust them again after . What’s the best way to remove the sleeve off the max power screw ? Undo the lock nut and remove the fitting the take the collar off or has someone got a better way .

cheers Ian 

[Jocklandjohn]

1 hour ago, ianmayco68 said:

I think that I need to take the adjustments I’ve made back to stock and then adjust the max power screw and then adjust them again after . What’s the best way to remove the sleeve off the max power screw ? Undo the lock nut and remove the fitting the take the collar off or has someone got a better way .

cheers Ian 

When I had my pump overhauled by Bosch (and it turned into a saga - not of engineer's making - a component failed internally) the engineer suggested (and then did it himself) simply cranking the nut back against the collar sufficient to allow a minor turn inwards of the fuelscrew once loose. It was like that for a year or so and I was able to move it easily enough within the required range and nip it up afterwards. Only very small increments are required to effect significant fuel delivery - in the region of 1/8th turn of the screw. 

I've also read of people removing the screw completely in order to grind the collar off. I tried to remove it on the pump and failed! Which is why I let the pump engineer do it.

I'm not sure what the max revs should be. But problem I ended up with was that in order to get a significant power increase I'd to adjust the max fuel screw, which in turn increased the idle speed, and I then ran out of idle speed adjustment and could not get the idle below 1100 rpm. Only way to properly adjust it to 800rpm it was to remove the throttle arm and refit on a different sprocket - but when I read up about the pain that could cause if I got it wrong I left it alone!