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mad_pete

V8 defender 3 inch snorkel

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Right 2018 here we go and two things top of my list.  Fix squeaky dash and uprate my snorkel.   

Squeaky dash I can probably handle but snorkel I'm open to ideas.

I want it to be :

  • 3 inches because, well can't really justify it but never the less 3 inches (currently 2.5)
  • Very pretty - I don't want it to look like gaffer taped drain pipe - no offense to that  particular look I'm just not wanting to go that way 
  • Passenger side
  • Quiet 
  • Branch resistant 

Doesn't have to be 

  • That high - if the water is up to the widow tops I have other issues

Currently I have a southdown 2.5 inch snorkel with the top broken off that goes through the wing via flex hose and under the heater box.  Not attached at the moment and air box is a K&N Apollo 

Looking to run the same route if I can and if it is narrower here and there I might take that. 

I've got a 3 inch Safari top to go on but be worried that needs to be in just the right spot not to be a tree hook.

The Apollo will switch round and pick up the flex hose. The main issue is how to get through the wing and have the bonnet open as it does rest on the hose. 

Also if you have a Apollo don't point as in the photo as it's a mud hoover there.

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https://www.racpartsltd.co.uk/product-page/single-diy-3-tube-snorkel 

This looks promising although I’d need to move the heater intake.

I’m assuming it looks like this when on.

 

https://www.racpartsltd.co.uk/product-page/snorkel-filter-housing

which I really like although I wouldn’t need the filter on the end.

If I just cut a bigger hole where it is now would I be able to put a strenthening bracket into the wing ?

 

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You can’t really beat the price of the rac snorkels. He has taken to welding a laser cut rac logo in the snorkel mouth which I would remove. He will tell you it doesn’t impede air flow.......it does. 

 

As you know your heater is on the side of your current snorkel, I tried and tried but I just couldn’t get a snorkel on that side with an air box that flowed enough for the v8 while keeping heater components. You’ll see that a lot of v8 guys have the snorkel on the other side OR they have the filter on the top of the snorkel

 

you can also go the route of pipe and silicone sections. I have done this and it works well.

 

devon4x4 did a really nice snorkel on their 110 trayback which needed a notch cutting into the bonnet, worth it IMO it looked good and it kept all the heater stuff in place

 

As for justification, 2.5” Area is 4.91” where a 3” area is 7.07”. more air the better

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I used a single straight length of SS pipe (£20 from a local fabricator) and a Mantec V8 top:

20170909_193951a.jpg

Straight down through the wing top with a 3" hole-saw. Top is held on with a short silicone joiner, held to roll cage with a big cable tie. Bottom end plumbing will be very different as my air filter is where your heater box is.

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4 hours ago, dangerous doug said:

You can’t really beat the price of the rac snorkels. He has taken to welding a laser cut rac logo in the snorkel mouth which I would remove. He will tell you it doesn’t impede air flow.......it does. 

 

As you know your heater is on the side of your current snorkel, I tried and tried but I just couldn’t get a snorkel on that side with an air box that flowed enough for the v8 while keeping heater components. You’ll see that a lot of v8 guys have the snorkel on the other side OR they have the filter on the top of the snorkel

 

you can also go the route of pipe and silicone sections. I have done this and it works well.

 

devon4x4 did a really nice snorkel on their 110 trayback which needed a notch cutting into the bonnet, worth it IMO it looked good and it kept all the heater stuff in place

 

As for justification, 2.5” Area is 4.91” where a 3” area is 7.07”. more air the better

Thanks for reminding me of the D44 trayback snorkel. That was a lovely solution for the wing/bonnet area, not so keen on the tube along the roof.

Link for those that aren't aware: https://www.devon4x4.com/static/workshop/workshop-projects/devon-4x4-110-trayback/59-finished-vehicle/

 

 

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My previous snorkel did that - no hole in the wing, just a notch in the side of the bonnet. I'm so ahead of the curve :lol:

Is it just me that really dislikes the idea of the air filter on top of the snorkel exposed to the elements / damage?

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No, not just you @FridgeFreezer, I can't imagine the UV doing it all that much good not to mention the general elements being splattered into it at 70+MPH on the motorway.

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Remembering the D44 build when it was done it was done in a rush!

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Yeah well race vehicles are a different kettle altogether :)

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Mouse had a 3" snorkel and full-size Defender V8 air filter:

Birzelio3-244.jpg

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4 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Mouse had a 3" snorkel and full-size Defender V8 air filter:

Birzelio3-244.jpg

How did it fare in the swamp roll fridge? From memory it was aluminium?

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I cut the trumpet end off the RRC filter box and welded a bit of pipe on. I welded up the drain at the bottom and sealed the top of with silicone as it was a 30 second job with a knife to cut it open again at service time. I then ran a suction flexi pipe up to a tractor pre cleaner which I tucked in the side of the roll cage with a ali bracket off the cage so that it didn't get caught on trees. OK not that pretty but it amazed me how much dust the thing kept out. The air filter was always very clean when I took it out. I would definitely recommend one of these from a technical point of view or the defender mushroom top which is designed to do the same thing. However you can get the tractor ones on all sorts of sizes, mine was £20 new.

20151031_114827%20Medium_zpss4zzbbso.jpg

Alternatively if you don't need the height I always liked what Rockwatt did on his SJ. This is a photo I found on the net, it's the silver thing infront of the screen on the passenger side at bonnet height. No pipes exposed to get damaged and looks neat from the outside.

CroppedImage800500-watmain21.jpg

Edited by Cynic-al

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2 hours ago, dangerous doug said:

How did it fare in the swamp roll fridge? From memory it was aluminium?

Toob was stainless, fairly sure the guard was stainless too.

It got dented on a tree but survived the roll no issues as swamp is very soft (especially the bit they fell through :lol:). The photo shows it after the roll, you can sort of see a scrape in the shield.

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4 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Toob was stainless, fairly sure the guard was stainless too.

It got dented on a tree but survived the roll no issues as swamp is very soft (especially the bit they fell through :lol:). The photo shows it after the roll, you can sort of see a scrape in the shield.

Good to know! 

 

Found a pic of the roll(sink) in question 

584400FA-C448-4275-BB4E-EAC9535373F6.jpeg.74b204f3080599e9f6beff06dd54741d.jpeg

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If you want your snorkel to be roll-proof, go look at the cage on Dirtydiesel's G-Wagen with the extra tube around the snorkel top. Dan is nothing if not belt & braces & welded gusset & extra armour plating...

Personally I figure if you've rolled over you're probably not worrying too much about your air intake.

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My effort:

I used Jetex 3" exhaust pipe. The holes in the end are covered with welded on 1" gauze. This should give it plenty of airflow and strength. I painted the inside using an aerosol can. You can see a bracket welded to the roll cage with a stainless steel strip bolted on. It is crucial to keep the snorkel inside the outside profile of the car for reasons mentioned.

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It plugs straight onto the filter housing. I brazed a connection of a TD filter housing to a  300 tdi housing, and removed and welded up  the original connection. There is no corrugated pipe used, as this is always a restriction.

 

Daan

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7 hours ago, Daan said:

There is no corrugated pipe used, as this is always a restriction.

In what way Daan? I always thought Corrugated pipe actually flows better as the turbulence is concentrated on the outer walls leaving a larger CSA in the centre for the air to flow through rather than smooth where the air has no direction and it does what ever it wants throughout the pipe. A lot of cylinder heads are being ported using a course gritt sand roll or having divvets cut into the port wall to mimic this effect(like a golf ball). I have no idea if this makes any difference with an inlet tract though, it was just something I was always left to believe and I have no idea on what velocity it would really make a difference.....

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2 hours ago, dangerous doug said:

In what way Daan? I always thought Corrugated pipe actually flows better as the turbulence is concentrated on the outer walls leaving a larger CSA in the centre for the air to flow through rather than smooth where the air has no direction and it does what ever it wants throughout the pipe. A lot of cylinder heads are being ported using a course gritt sand roll or having divvets cut into the port wall to mimic this effect(like a golf ball). I have no idea if this makes any difference with an inlet tract though, it was just something I was always left to believe and I have no idea on what velocity it would really make a difference.....

I'd be interested to know the outcome. I don't know the exact details of flows at atmosphere but I know that under vacuum corrugated pipe doesn't affect the pumping speed. Talking atmosphere down to ~1.0x10-8 mbar (I think that's what we achieve, my brain is failing me this morning). 

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Can’t find the exact model that showed it. Admittedly this one is a bit more MS paint but you get the idea.....

 

the intake port surface thing is known and long standing as it prevents fuel suspension in port injected engines or carburettor applications.

 

i accept that we are now talking about a different part of the inlet system and were now slightly OT but I think it’s worth a thought....

 

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I think the roughness idea in the porting pics is more to make things more turbulent, so fuel and air mix better, just before entering the cylinder. I cannot see how corrugated hose is better than smooth. if you say the speed is bigger in the center, isn't that because it is lower near the walls? Any way, if it were better to use corrugated tube, why is the entire inlet tract not corrugated? There are different types of corrugated hose though, some are actually really smooth inside. 

Anyway, I usually try to avoid it.

Daan

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Ah science. Here we go. The dimples (and I’m not sure that’s quite the same as coragated but maybe) should trap a layer of air near the surface allowing consistent air flow above the trapped layer.  Smooth is in theory better  but is prone to separation where the air flow breaks away from the surface introducing turbulence and unpredictable flow.  

Maybe like a bearing. In theory smooth metal cylinders should be best but less friction is achieved with small rotating balls trapped at the outside. In this case metal with dimples rotating air.

And thanks for the pictures and discussion. Really good. Daan how does your snorkel go out round the bonnet so it doesn’t catch when you open it ?

 

 

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yes, it just clears. But a series bonnet is narrower, so you have a bit more space.

 

Daan

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I’ve emailed RAC to see if they will sell me the top part. The Devon one I do like. The bonnet does have a notch but the main part seems through the wing which would be fine. I can’t find a picture of how it comes over the heater. Once I’ve fixed my dashboard squeak I’ll see if I can get the outer wing off. It does look tight under the heater. Wondering if the inner wing or bulkhead could give up a bit of space.

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