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Soren Frimodt

A question for the V8 Guru's: Holley vs Edelbrock

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So my brother is building up a 90" V8 and has found a nice old SD1 engine with efi for it. BUT he doesn't want the efi, but carbs instead. And seeing as it'll be mostly roadgoing but still has to be able to do some Trialling he's looking into a 4-barrel setup so that he can feed the 190bhp properly.

The question is, which is better offroad? The edelbrock we have some experience with and it is quite a hassle offroad, even with the offroad kit so we wonder if the Holley is better, please chime in if you have any experience :) 

Thanks

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I've never had a Holley myself, but found suggestions they don't like running at angles while I was looking at options for my build. Chatting with FridgeFreezer at the pay and play today (much fun on my first off road outing!), his experience with a Holley seemed to confirm that. 

I'd have thought a standard twin setup, Stromberg or SU, ought to support 190bhp with a little tinkering? 

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If you have to go carbs, then go SU's - they are cheap, dead dead simple and easy to tune (and work at angles).

 

 

 

 

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Thanks guys, usually we would choose SU's because usually we do most offroading. However you cannot deny the much crisper throttle response and high revvyness of the much better manifold design on the 4-barrels, also fire-up is soo much better because you have the squirters so you just pump the pedal twice and it fires right up. Nothing against the SU, probably no-one who loves it more than me, but for this we want something different. But it sounds like the Holley probably isn't better offroad, and I really don't like the vacuum secondaries. Though they are a lower cfm so might have a little better fuel economy, but going away from CV carbs like Stromberg and SU we will probably have ruined that anyways :D 

I was hoping to find someone who has tried both, but that is probably unlikely :) 

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Fair point on the dual plane manifold, it's not the best. What about using an injection manifold and modifying the plenum cover to take a couple of side draughts of some kind? ;) 

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Try asking on v8forum.co.uk, someone will bound to have had both on there...

 

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I've had SU's, a Holley and a Weber / Edelbrock and the 4-barrels were both carp. Flapper EFI was better than all of them and Megasquirt is better than that. At least SU's are relatively (for a carb) simple, reliable, and economical, and don't mind slopes.

Never had an issue with the SU's not starting, DID have an issue with (I think) the Holley freezing up in cold weather, and DID have an issue with the Weber tuning screws winding themselves out.

Between Holley and Edelbrock I guess you just need to decide if you'd rather it conk out going uphill or on a side-slope :lol:

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I'd still go with SUs, sorry Soren...

 

Mind you, if he *HAS* EFI, and SD1 EFI at that, then why not just run it, it is free, an any carb will be a lot of money in comparison.

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Thanks you everyone, and Fridge you confirmed my suspicion, so the Edelbrock it'll be.

With regards to EFI I could probably come up with 20 things I don't like about it, but when it comes to it its probably just becaus I'm a Dinosaur, if anyone is in doubt just read my 80" Thread :D 

Again thank you all for you input, much appreciated :i-m_so_happy:

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Of course, the beauty of carbs is that you can rebuild them in the middle of a muddy field. Whenever I've explained this wonderful news to people engaged in rebuilding a carb in a muddy field they didn't seem that pleased, so I just drive off in my 'squirted truck and leave them to it  :lol:

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47 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Of course, the beauty of carbs is that you can rebuild them in the middle of a muddy field. Whenever I've explained this wonderful news to people engaged in rebuilding a carb in a muddy field they didn't seem that pleased, so I just drive off in my 'squirted truck and leave them to it  :lol:

Oh yeah I forgot EFI never fails, thats why there are no Forums or subsections on this forum about such systems. In fact you can't even buy spare parts for injection systems because once build they last forever.. 😜

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I'm struggling to recall anything more than a duff connector or user that has caused a problem with MSEFI, they can be fixed in a field too ;)

The sub-forums are actually there to help build the systems, they work, which is why there are no repair threads in there, just build and tuning ;):P 

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^ I agree with this! The only efi related problems I've had (apart from pump failure) were due to me fiddling with things...

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I don't wish to turn this into an argument, but I just wan't you to understand that its not exactly like carbs needs fiddling every day either. I daily commute cars and bikes with carbs, and have done so on and off (except when I had diesels) for the last 12 years and I haven't once had to stop and clean my carb or adjust it or any such nonsense that many people imagine. Once tuned a carb doesn't just change itself. It is a very simple mechanical thing so why should it be any worse than any other mechanical moving object on an engine? Often times comparisons are made between old worn out 20+ years carbs and brand new or hardly used EFI setups, which isn't fair. Just my 2 cents worth

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I know Soren, not arguing ;) 

I think most of the problems I get with carbs is bad fuel, ethanol, dirt, and nasty aftermarket items which are no better than a bucket with a hole in it.

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2 hours ago, Soren Frimodt said:

I don't wish to turn this into an argument, but I just wan't you to understand that its not exactly like carbs needs fiddling every day either. I daily commute cars and bikes with carbs, and have done so on and off (except when I had diesels) for the last 12 years and I haven't once had to stop and clean my carb or adjust it or any such nonsense that many people imagine. Once tuned a carb doesn't just change itself. It is a very simple mechanical thing so why should it be any worse than any other mechanical moving object on an engine?

^Also agree with this :D - both of my rv8 dailies ran SU's for many many reliable miles before i injected them. The only reason I converted was the hunt for a little more power and some extra efficiency. Oh, and I like to tinker with geeky things and fuel injection is definitely on the geekier side of car ownership.

2 hours ago, Soren Frimodt said:

Often times comparisons are made between old worn out 20+ years carbs and brand new or hardly used EFI setups, which isn't fair. Just my 2 cents worth

Unfortunately we all experience this when people say that Land-rovers (or anything else over 10 years old ) are "unreliable". Sure, some might be - but they will be the ones that aren't looked after properly. 

Carb or EFI, both will work reliably (as they did when manufactured) if they are fitted, setup and maintained properly. 

 

 

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Søren, a book I have mentioned before is “tuning the a series engine” it has a pretty detailed guide on how to port SU carbs to flow a lot more CFM, probably not 4 barrel CFM but it may be a decent compromise. 

but ultimately if you know SUs and are continuing this conversation while rueling out EFI then I think you/he’s pretty set on the 4 barrel

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5 hours ago, Quagmire said:

Carb or EFI, both will work reliably (as they did when manufactured) if they are fitted, setup and maintained properly.

I'd add the caveat that the Holley & Weber reliability "as manufactured" is not quite the same as the SU's or the EFI in my experience - the Weber was brand new out of the box so no excuses!

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5 hours ago, Quagmire said:

Unfortunately we all experience this when people say that Land-rovers (or anything else over 10 years old ) are "unreliable". Sure, some might be - but they will be the ones that aren't looked after properly. 

Indeed, comparing new to old is never fair, I have a colleague that's an VW/Audi guy to the bone, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but as it goes on a workplace he likes to nag me with my old cars which always seem to have some small thing wrong with them. But I always shut him, and the rest of my nagging colleagues up by saying: "You know what? We'll have this discussion when your car is 50 years old!" And it always shuts them up because inside they know that'll never happen :D 

2 hours ago, dangerous doug said:

but ultimately if you know SUs and are continuing this conversation while rueling out EFI then I think you/he’s pretty set on the 4 barrel

Exactly I know the SU well enough to love it, but I also know it enough to recognize the weaknesses. And for on-road performance (which the 90" in question will see 99% of) Nothing beats the superior flow of the 4 barrel downdraft system and the Edelbrock manifold. So the question was basically just which 4-barrel to choose.

49 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

I'd add the caveat that the Holley & Weber reliability "as manufactured" is not quite the same as the SU's or the EFI in my experience - the Weber was brand new out of the box so no excuses!

It is after all from Trump-land, so what can you expect? :D 

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14 hours ago, Soren Frimodt said:

It is after all from Trump-land, so what can you expect? :D 

carbmonkey.jpg

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I don't like these type of carbs, you can see how much fuel is going in :wacko:

 

 

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Mechanic friend of mine had some 1970's American muscle-car in once that had four 4-barrels bolted to it, THAT drank some fuel - fuel hoses were about an inch thick! :o

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2 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Mechanic friend of mine had some 1970's American muscle-car in once that had four 4-barrels bolted to it, THAT drank some fuel - fuel hoses were about an inch thick! :o

Geebus! :o And all of that to make 300HP I bet? :hysterical:

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