jrharte Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Hey guys, I have 2000 Defender 90 TD5. It's the XS model so came with ABS. Over the last year it had developed the infamous 3 amigos. But they didn't all light at once. When you started up ABS and TC remained lit. Then upon using the brakes for the first time after starting, there was little to no braking power. It felt like the brakes were grinding. After letting off the brake and braking again they worked perfectly (without ABS) but the brake warning lamp came on and stayed on. I had the codes read with a Hawkeye Pro and it was throwing everything related to ABS. The mechanic suggested removing ABS entirely and replacing with non-ABS braking system. He specialises in Land Rovers had done it previously to another Defender. So now the jobs all done, braking is perfect, but the 3 lights are constantly illuminated. Reading the codes shows the following: "ECU ground or Reference ground fault" "Front Left sensor electrical failure" Clearing the codes gets rids of the sensor fault but ECU ground fault stays, and the 3 amigos never go out. Has anyone has any similar experiences or idea on where to start looking? I used a multi-meter to test the ground from ECU to -ve terminal and it was fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrharte Posted February 13, 2018 Author Share Posted February 13, 2018 I'm guessing this is the ECU earth (red arrow)? As it runs from there to the -ve ternimal on the battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Mine is further down on a post in the floor of the box, although that bolt indicated is threaded into the fabric of the shelf which should also be a good earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrharte Posted February 13, 2018 Author Share Posted February 13, 2018 50 minutes ago, V8 Freak said: Mine is further down on a post in the floor of the box, although that bolt indicated is threaded into the fabric of the shelf which should also be a good earth. Yeah I read other people saying the earth was on the floor but I don't have one there. I'm guessing this earth point works for both the main ECU and ABS ECU. I'll take it off and clean it up and see if that helps, but the multi-meter is saying everything is OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 A simple check to see if the code will go away would be to run a wire from that earth point indicated to the battery negative. Have a good look under the wires for another earth point because mine has several wires on the post so it maybe a wire you've not discovered yet that has a bad earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 2 hours ago, jrharte said: I have 2000 Defender 90 TD5. It's the XS model so came with ABS. The mechanic suggested removing ABS entirely and replacing with non-ABS braking system. He specialises in Land Rovers had done it previously to another Defender. I'm not sure about the legalities of removing the system, even though more basic models were built without it. I'd recommend you get confirmation from the DVLA that it's legal and approval from your insurers (who will not like it, even if they approve it, and will probably increase the premium a considerable amount). Hopefully, Freak's advice will sort it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 What Nick said. I must admit I really can't see why you'd want to remove it and not just fix it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrharte Posted February 13, 2018 Author Share Posted February 13, 2018 1 minute ago, landroversforever said: What Nick said. I must admit I really can't see why you'd want to remove it and not just fix it All wheel sensors had errors (around £70 each) and ABS pump needed replaced (around £2000). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrharte Posted February 13, 2018 Author Share Posted February 13, 2018 10 minutes ago, Snagger said: I'm not sure about the legalities of removing the system, even though more basic models were built without it. I'd recommend you get confirmation from the DVLA that it's legal and approval from your insurers (who will not like it, even if they approve it, and will probably increase the premium a considerable amount). Hopefully, Freak's advice will sort it out. The DVLA rules are "if it can come from the factory with or without ABS, then it has type approval for both. If it only leaves the factory in ABS form, them removal is illegal". My defender is modified and the insurance covers all mods for free that don't increase horsepower past a certain amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyn668 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 This is an interesting thread. My ABS works now, but who knows what faults it will develop in 10 years or 20 years time. Interesting to see that from the DVLA’s point of view it can be removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmayco68 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Just a thought but wouldn’t you need to do a work around with the warning lights for the ABS so they went out , like when you install the td5 instrument pack into an older defender . cheers Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 There aren't any issues with ABS light when you put a TD5 dash in an earlier car.... at least I didn't have to do anything with mine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmayco68 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 (edited) Thought you had to put wires from 2 of the terminals to 2 other terminals on the black connector that goes into the warning light panel to stop the abs light being illuminated all the time , or am I getting mixed up with something else ? You have to link terminals 6 & 10 and 9 & 13 on the small black connector (16 terminal plug) that goes into the warning panel says this is a work around for older vehicles without abs , wondered if you needed to do something similar as the abs as been removed , didn’t think I was going mad . Not that mad anyway. Edited February 14, 2018 by ianmayco68 Add info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrharte Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, ianmayco68 said: Thought you had to put wires from 2 of the terminals to 2 other terminals on the black connector that goes into the warning light panel to stop the abs light being illuminated all the time , or am I getting mixed up with something else ? Yeah you're correct. Think I found my solution: 11 minutes ago, landroversforever said: There aren't any issues with ABS light when you put a TD5 dash in an earlier car.... at least I didn't have to do anything with mine? Probably because the dash connection cable wasn't wired for ABS. ABS was only an option on TD5, not standard unless it was XS model. So I'm guessing TD5s without ABS had the instrument panel connectors wired differently from the model with ABS installed etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Hmmmm maybe I did looking at that. It was a while ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Thinking about this... The ABS light stays on until you go over 5mph on mine.. How does your ECU know you’ve gone above 5mph? Does it use the ABS sensors or the Speedo signals?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 11 hours ago, V8 Freak said: Thinking about this... The ABS light stays on until you go over 5mph on mine.. How does your ECU know you’ve gone above 5mph? Does it use the ABS sensors or the Speedo signals?? Wheel sensors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally V8 Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Where in the world are you,maybe we could suggest a good independant to help you sort it out. Also if it needs a new modulator/pump unit,then its perfectly OK to use one from a Discovery 2. Plenty of them in breakers yards etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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