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Hercu

Upgrade to Disco 3 TDV 6

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4 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

..........I wouldn't trust them to make mudflaps.......

:lol: 😂 😂😂😂

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9 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Britpart parts don't have a good reputation round here..

 

Likewise the aftermarket rebuild parts for the 2.7TDV6 do not have a good reputation - that oil pump on the Turner site is not genuine Ford and aftermarket pumps have a dismal failure rate of the seals.

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11 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Britpart parts don't have a good reputation round here..

 

...Or to be less diplomatic, they're often shockingly rubbish and certainly a risky prospect on something like an expensive D3 engine. I wouldn't trust them to make mudflaps, let alone supply something critical like a crank shaft.

Maybe the reason for the reasonable quote...Thank you FridgeFreezer...I am still waiting for the Landrover quote !!:rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, garrycol said:

Likewise the aftermarket rebuild parts for the 2.7TDV6 do not have a good reputation - that oil pump on the Turner site is not genuine Ford and aftermarket pumps have a dismal failure rate of the seals.

Garry....Is the Ford Territory 2.7 TDV 6  exactly the same engine ???

The Diesel model was never marketed in South Africa (Only Petrol) from New Zealand...

To Import A ford engine might be cheaper than to rebuild this D 3 engine and as said ..the parts is not the best..!

Thank you ...Gary ..I am now in a different Mind set..! 

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Yes the same engine - just some minor differences with some ancillaries which you would move from your old engine. (not sure which ones but is no issue)

The Territory engine is the lastest version of the 2.7 so doesn't have most of the issues (like oil pump housing failures) and I haven't heard of spun bearings and broken crankshafts with them.

I know the Territory was exported to South Africa but not sure if the diesel models were - so check - certainly there are plenty of petrol Territory's on SA Gumtree.

 

Garry

 

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Hercu,

Some of the negative comments are BS, the chassis on a D3 is about 4 times the thicknes of a D1/2 and I have not seen any posts about rust other than surface rust as there us no paint on it. I would not trust a Mk2 Cavalier to get to 150,000 miles let alone keep going but D3 does.

All the parts being knackered? Maybe it depends on maintenance and if it has early model parts (cant rember what year yours is sorry but mines an MY05) so yes it could well be a money pit. And due to your location probably not a very good prodpect ūTBH, I love mine but even in the UK it is suggested to keep £1,000 spare for repairs at all times.

Due to the number of computers in the car (everythinghss its own ECU) you cant drop a different engine in unless it uses the same ancileries, even the alternator!

In order to work on it you will really need a proper fault code computer, in the UK they are £400 (Britpart sells the better one) but that is probably more than you are hoping to get an engine or!

Maybe it is better to out it as spares? It may well net you more money than you paid for it!

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Interesting to read through this one, despite the litany of known issues, potential issues and grey areas not once does Hercu seem put off. I think you said it best mate when you said 'I can get a good D2 Td5 for the same money'. 

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13 hours ago, missingsid said:

Hercu,

Some of the negative comments are BS, the chassis on a D3 is about 4 times the thicknes of a D1/2 and I have not seen any posts about rust other than surface rust as there us no paint on it. I would not trust a Mk2 Cavalier to get to 150,000 miles let alone keep going but D3 does.

All the parts being knackered? Maybe it depends on maintenance and if it has early model parts (cant rember what year yours is sorry but mines an MY05) so yes it could well be a money pit. And due to your location probably not a very good prodpect ūTBH, I love mine but even in the UK it is suggested to keep £1,000 spare for repairs at all times.

Due to the number of computers in the car (everythinghss its own ECU) you cant drop a different engine in unless it uses the same ancileries, even the alternator!

In order to work on it you will really need a proper fault code computer, in the UK they are £400 (Britpart sells the better one) but that is probably more than you are hoping to get an engine or!

Maybe it is better to out it as spares? It may well net you more money than you paid for it!

Sorry if you don't like my comments, but they are based on vehicles that come into my workshop on a daily basis,either for servicing or diagnosis.This is for my own customers and other garages customers cars.Many owners are struggling to keep them in good shape,often scrap them if major engine damage occurs.Maybe I should take some pictures of the corrosion I see and post them here. Many toothbrush salesmen thrashed their Cavaliers to 200,000 miles, I saw plenty back in the late 80's, early 90's. Then they seemed to disappear, almost overnight. I've had to scrap too many D3's already,same as P38's did when they suffered liner issues. TD5's it seems are still just about worth fixing - to some.

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I had a MK2 Cab SRi on over 200k, was a good laugh :)

An accident (not my fault) killed it at almost 20 years old.

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On 2/24/2018 at 5:32 AM, garrycol said:

Yes the same engine - just some minor differences with some ancillaries which you would move from your old engine. (not sure which ones but is no issue)

The Territory engine is the lastest version of the 2.7 so doesn't have most of the issues (like oil pump housing failures) and I haven't heard of spun bearings and broken crankshafts with them.

I know the Territory was exported to South Africa but not sure if the diesel models were - so check - certainly there are plenty of petrol Territory's on SA Gumtree.

 

Garry

 

Gary 

Thank you for valued info..

Yes, there is and even landrover Petrol engines...But due to my locality I must consider a Diesel engine...and not sure what mods to be done from Diesel to Petrol on the system..????:unsure:

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For a D3 you would only ever consider a replacement engine of the same type using the standard electronics - to change to another type of engine is never going to be viable due to to huge cost of changing computers and other electronic issues.

So your only real option is a rebuild or a replacement 2.7.  No other options are economically viable.

 

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On 2/24/2018 at 9:28 AM, missingsid said:

Hercu,

Some of the negative comments are BS, the chassis on a D3 is about 4 times the thicknes of a D1/2 and I have not seen any posts about rust other than surface rust as there us no paint on it. I would not trust a Mk2 Cavalier to get to 150,000 miles let alone keep going but D3 does.

All the parts being knackered? Maybe it depends on maintenance and if it has early model parts (cant rember what year yours is sorry but mines an MY05) so yes it could well be a money pit. And due to your location probably not a very good prodpect ūTBH, I love mine but even in the UK it is suggested to keep £1,000 spare for repairs at all times.

Due to the number of computers in the car (everythinghss its own ECU) you cant drop a different engine in unless it uses the same ancileries, even the alternator!

In order to work on it you will really need a proper fault code computer, in the UK they are £400 (Britpart sells the better one) but that is probably more than you are hoping to get an engine or!

Maybe it is better to out it as spares? It may well net you more money than you paid for it!

Missingsid...Thank you for a highly appreciated reply....Owning a Discovery 1 TDi I am fully aware of Disco's moods and pains...A landrover owner must be very committed to maintenance and TLC..and it will return you all the joy in the world and yes being able to buy it cash supposed monthly installment could be saved for "that" day when it is needed..!

The D3 in general is fairly well rated except for that Bearing Failure....But seems once fixed it is done..!

"Maybe it is better to out it as spares?"   It is also considered

Rust on the Coast or near the coast is a given...and after few years the "Cancer"' get a grip  ...I do launch the Jet ski with my Disco in the surf but usually get power washed once back home..But salt water and metal is a devil..

On 2/24/2018 at 11:03 PM, Ally V8 said:

Sorry if you don't like my comments, but they are based on vehicles that come into my workshop on a daily basis,either for servicing or diagnosis.This is for my own customers and other garages customers cars.Many owners are struggling to keep them in good shape,often scrap them if major engine damage occurs.Maybe I should take some pictures of the corrosion I see and post them here. Many toothbrush salesmen thrashed their Cavaliers to 200,000 miles, I saw plenty back in the late 80's, early 90's. Then they seemed to disappear, almost overnight. I've had to scrap too many D3's already,same as P38's did when they suffered liner issues. TD5's it seems are still just about worth fixing - to some.

Thank you Alley , your comment is very valuable... Yes...There will be concealed rust .. but as I said previously my D1 is a 1997 mod...This D3 is 2006 which give me 9 years plus...

Please post that pics of corrosion so that we could see where to look..

Kind Regards

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2 minutes ago, garrycol said:

For a D3 you would only ever consider a replacement engine of the same type using the standard electronics - to change to another type of engine is never going to be viable due to to huge cost of changing computers and other electronic issues.

So your only real option is a rebuild or a replacement 2.7.  No other options are economically viable.

 

Aah Gary ..Thank you so much...There was so much confusion on this that even I started to fiddle around...Good .. Mind set on Rebuild or replacement...!

Was Talking to the workshop manager and Main Mechanic on Saturday and they gave me exactly the same answer..They even recommended a rebuild rather than a replacement... ( I am not Paying workshop hours only parts)..

So it is body off and putting on the knee guards when I go to see the bank Manager  ...!!! (His office carpet is very thin)

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On 2/18/2018 at 5:47 PM, Hercu said:

This Disco 3 TDV 6 was offered to me and although the engine is seized the price is unbelievable..Half the price of old disco 1's (Rusted)

On this model there was a factory problem on bearing seizing,,,the bearing cap was rotating on the crank...????

Need true insets...please ..Cost on rebuild of the engine ..Is it worth it ?

 

Ok - do you know what the actual problem is with this engine?  What do you mean by seized?  This normally implies pistons locked to the cylinder liners which does not normally happen with the 2.7.

I am assuming that the engine will not turn over - normally one of three issues.

1.    The cam belt tensioner which is mounted to the oil pump has broken so the belt jumps teeth - basically pistons hit valves breaking valves, rockers and possibly the cam chain.  In some cases damage to pistons may not exist and the heads and valve gear can be rebuilt.  So check if the cam belt tensioner has broken off the oil pump.

2.   What you have alluded to above; in some engines, a big end conrod bearing can rotate and fatigues the crankshaft so it breaks.  Engine rebuild is required - drop the sump and have a look.

3.  Related to two, there have been some report of cranks breaking without apparent bearings spinning - straight metallurgical failure of the crank - result is the same as two - drop the sump and have a look.

If you look at the Disco3Uk forum and the RRS UK forum - you will find plenty on these issues and find people who have worked through them.

http://www.rrsport.co.uk/forum/

https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/

 

Garry

 

 

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29 minutes ago, garrycol said:

Ok - do you know what the actual problem is with this engine?  What do you mean by seized?  This normally implies pistons locked to the cylinder liners which does not normally happen with the 2.7.

I am assuming that the engine will not turn over - normally one of three issues.

1.    The cam belt tensioner which is mounted to the oil pump has broken so the belt jumps teeth - basically pistons hit valves breaking valves, rockers and possibly the cam chain.  In some cases damage to pistons may not exist and the heads and valve gear can be rebuilt.  So check if the cam belt tensioner has broken off the oil pump.

2.   What you have alluded to above; in some engines, a big end conrod bearing can rotate and fatigues the crankshaft so it breaks.  Engine rebuild is required - drop the sump and have a look.

3.  Related to two, there have been some report of cranks breaking without apparent bearings spinning - straight metallurgical failure of the crank - result is the same as two - drop the sump and have a look.

If you look at the Disco3Uk forum and the RRS UK forum - you will find plenty on these issues and find people who have worked through them.

http://www.rrsport.co.uk/forum/

https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/

 

Garry

 

 

Garry...Once again , Thank you...This is sadly a long distance thing....The vehicle is at venue A the workshop at B and I working at C..All in a 400 Km triangle..!

I bought it on a Gumtree ad after a trusted angling friend inspected it and declared it a very nice and clean vehicle and worth to buy..(Trusted seller!)

The owner stated the engine "seized" and could not Identify the problem whether it was heat, bearing, or timing belt...His "mechanic" :rolleyes:  could not identify the damage except saying that the engine could not be turned by hand... So, it still needs to be transported to point B (the workshop), which should have happened last weekend but the trailer promised to me was urgently needed and the owner could make a few bucks where I could have it for free...  So still waiting to hear when the trailer will be available now...!!!

One positive is that the workshop owner offered to fetch the vehicle as soon as the trailer is available with only fuel cost to my account. (A promised fishing weekend opens doors):D

That birds egg boiling in my..#$$.....became an Ostrich egg now...!!:wacko:

Regards

Hercules

PS: Thanks for the links.

 

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38 minutes ago, Hercu said:

That birds egg boiling in my..#$$.....became an Ostrich egg now...!!:wacko:

I think cultural limitation have made me somewhat confused about this statement! :) 

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1 hour ago, Bowie69 said:

I think cultural limitation have made me somewhat confused about this statement! :) 

That birds egg boiling in my..#$$.....became an Ostrich egg now...!!:wacko:

Bowie...Yes, the saying when you are in a hurry or very eager to achieve something goes " you can boil and egg in my #$$ "

To express my eagerness I referred to a huge egg !!

(I was in a hurry but now I want a rush)

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Apologies Hercu, I didn't realise you'd already bought the D3 and wouldn't have made a comment that must have seemed like a bit of a poke if I had. Fair play for taking it on and good luck with the build - here's hoping it's the lesser of whatever potential probs there could be when it arrives!

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3 hours ago, Shackleton said:

Apologies Hercu, I didn't realise you'd already bought the D3 and wouldn't have made a comment that must have seemed like a bit of a poke if I had. Fair play for taking it on and good luck with the build - here's hoping it's the lesser of whatever potential probs there could be when it arrives!

Shackelton....Appreciated but truly not necessary......no offence taken.. Thank you for the best wishes. It is going to be a nice project

I really hope I can fix this without incredible cost...If not surely I might be lucky to sell it to a Landy lover who had an accident damaged write off....

I got this D3 on the current exchange rate for £ 1800-00 and if I spend £ 2000-00 it will still be a bargain !

See they are selling for 6000=00 to 10 000=00 + in The UK

Regards

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Engine can't be rebuild?

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=disco+3+2.7+overhaule+part1&&view=detail&mid=4FFFE7F5614BCD27C8FE4FFFE7F5614BCD27C8FE&&FORM=VRDGAR

TSD showed a link to the parts as well. I am getting the vibe that everyone has a grudge against these cars, but as always, once you start looking into it, all the problems are solvable. I think the disco 3 could be the next big thing in land rover circles, once a few people had a go at home fixing things. They are certainly great value at the moment. 

Just because it is not all as what you are used to, does not mean it can't be done. It would be great if someone on here bought one and keeps  us updated on the problems he/she encounters and their fixes. TSD?

 

Daan

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I'm not sure it's going to be the next big thing, but it could be the next P38 :rolleyes: ... by which I mean it's a pretty good car, but could end up with a pretty poor reputation. It's a big complex car, that really benefits from frequent, proper, servicing (ie fixing things that want fixing, before they NEED fixing). Sadly by the time us enthusiasts get hold of them, they've often been owned for 10 years by some tightwad who only fixes mot failures, using the cheapest parts imaginable fitted by a mate in his lunch hour at kwikfords.

Quick summary of my experience (bought at 62k, 5 years ago, now nudging 170k)...

Parts prices are generally pretty fair. Engine bay is tight, and a few jobs are 'body off', luckily I haven't hit any of those yet.

There are some lovely 'gotchas' - like the sunroof drain tube that rots and snaps behind the bulkhead. When it does this, all the rainwater runs through the fusebox then pools under the carpet, where there is a channel deep enough to put your fist into, full of wiring loom :blink:

(I only found that because I drove slowly over a humpback bridge, and heard the water running from one end of the car to the other!)

I've made some (expensive) mistakes along the way - I changed both rear wheel bearings, and the rear prop chasing down an intermittent vibration which turned out to be a sticking brake caliper - which I might not have done with more LR4x4 type knowledge available. (Though the prop was in fact knackered, but there were no noticeable symptoms!)

I've been told it needs a new torque converter, but a gear oil change every 25k has kept symptoms at bay for 3 years or more (though the proper oil is spendy).

I had an injector failure that didn't show as a diagnostic fault, but prevented engine start. Keith Gotts found that one for me.

I have an intermittent starting problem for about 4 years - dashboard reports a fault before I even turn the key, but no faults are stored. It usually starts on the second crank, but sometimes refuses for 20 minutes. I'm no closer to finding that one than I was at the beginning.

Other than that, it's been mostly run of the mill stuff for any luxo-barge - worn bushes, wheel bearings, air suspension pump, that kind of thing.

Given the temperature tonight, I'm reminded that the chances of getting a glowplug out without snapping are usually put at 50:50, and there are 6 of them :wacko: No problem down to 0degC, but it will be a hard start at -5 tomorrow morning.

 

 

 

 

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Yes the engines can be rebuilt bit not with LR parts - questionable quality aftermarket parts only - the recognized top LR independents in the UK are cautioning about using these parts as they have major failures and are unable to warrant their work if using these parts.

So it would seem you pay your money for these aftermarket parts then maybe have to do another rebuild soon after.  It is a risk assessment process.

We are lucky here in Australia in that we have a ready supply of low km late model 2.7s from our Ford Territories which go straight in - there are far more Territories than Discos so supply is not such an issue.  Unfortunately dismantlers have started to under stand this and prices are going up.

 

 

Garry

 

Edited by garrycol
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10 hours ago, garrycol said:

We are lucky here in Australia in that we have a ready supply of low km late model 2.7s from our Ford Territories which go straight in - there are far more Territories than Discos so supply is not such an issue.  Unfortunately dismantlers have started to under stand this and prices are going up.

Same situation here, but with Jaguars (S type I think?)

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Arn't they twin turbo without some of the stuff that 4wdise the engine in the Disco.  From wiki - The disco engine is fitted with a large engine driven cooling fan to support low speed, high load driving as may be encountered in desert conditions. Furthermore, the Land Rover variant of the Lion V6 includes a deeper, high capacity sump with improved baffles to maintain oil pressure at off-roading extreme angles and multi-layered seals to keep dust, mud and water at bay and different transmission bell housing bolt pattern. So the engine does not go straight in.

As the Territory is a 4wd, the engine is essentially the same as the Disco, so basically bolts straight in with virtually no mods required.

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As far as I understand it, there are no mods required, just swapping parts from the bu66ered engine to the replacement one.  I've not done it, and I wouldn't bother - early D3s like mine aren't worth enough round here to make it worth the effort.

The PSA (Peugeot/Citroen) version won't fit though as the block is different.

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