daveturnbull Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 So, very off topic, but you are a helpful and knowledgeable bunch. Here goes. My wife's car is a a Mk2 Focus 1.6 Petrol. On her way to work last wednesday the oil light came on. I told her to get some more oil and sling it in before coming home, which she duly did, then started the car only to find said oil immediately ejected all over to car park. She left the car there and got a lift home. Friday I got a friend with a trailer to recover it back to his workshop where he found the oil filter seal was split. New filter fitted, fresh oil and off we go again. But not for long. Saturday morning she was due to go to work again, started the car then went to defrost the windows, only to spot yet more oil running down the road. Later on that day, I dragged it up the drive and onto the ramps only to find that the seal on the oil filter had been pushed out at the top. Now this seal is a 10mm square rubber O ring. Not easily displaced through a 1mm gap between the filter and it's mounting. So clearly we have a problem of far too much oil pressure going on, and the filter seal is the weakest link, but why? My thoughts are either a blocked gallery somewhere, or possibly the pressure relief valve in the oil pump is stuck closed? But god knows where or how I would ever start diagnosing either of those is a mystery. For info, the engine (1.6 Duratec) still runs nicely and sounds as it should. No holed pistons or knocking big ends. Any words of wisdom appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 This happens when you accidentally leave the old filter o ring in place, doubling it up.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 only ever seen that before on a mini, a oil & filter change had been done the night before but it wasn't noticed the seal ring from the removed filter was still on the oil filter head & the new filter complete with its seal had been fitted, result oil all over the ground & bottom of engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveturnbull Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share Posted February 19, 2018 Definitely not a double seal issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_a Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Oil pressure relief valve? No idea where it would be or even if they are in the filter. The V8 has the issue that the valve sticks open and you get no pressure, sounds like sticking closed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Is it just when cold? It's possible the bypass valve in the filter is blocked... more so if you replaced the filter with one of the same make...? Otherwise yes, oil pressure relief valve, where ever they are on a 1.6 duratec. (I think also, that some Duratecs are just badged up ZETECs, so better to go by engine code/number) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lo-fi Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Just to be sure, did the correct oil go in after the low pressure warning? Too thick, particularly when cold, can cause this on an engine designed for thin oil. Was it a level or pressure warning that came on during the journey home? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveturnbull Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share Posted February 19, 2018 Well there is only one light on the dash for oil, but going by the fact it all fell out I'd say low pressure caused by nothing to pump. And yes, 5w30 used as specified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Definitely sounds like the relief-valve is sticking closed. Can you get a presure-gauge on it? A few decades back we had this on a batch of diesel Austin Montego vans: over a few days one winter about half a dozen of them burst the oil-filters. At first the fleetmaster put the blame on a batch of non-OEM oil filters workshops had fitted being faulty, until the genuine bought-from-Austin-Rover filters started doing the same. Turns out there was a manufacturing fault and the relief-valve bores had been machined undersize so the plunger wouldn't move. A cold-start followed by 70MPH down the A34 before the oil had warmed was all it took to burst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Some "dangerous" assumptions going on here, unless you can measure the oil pressure I wouldn't be assuming anything, seal splitting is one thing, but that picture of the new filter, just looks to me like the oil seal hasn't be pre-lubed before tightening and its just grabbed it when the filter was being screwed on. imho of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Why did you automatically put more oil in when the low pressure light was on? It could've been full of oil and still get a low pressure warning light? Over filling it could've caused a second problem? I would try put a pressure gauge on it first and try see what's actually happening... and a handbook so you know what the pressures should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Oil lights should "fail safe" i.e. if it fails it will come on - unlike the TDCI puma's... which fail unsafe... could be a duff oil pressure sender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwakers Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) ive seen several instance of this in a mates workshop on fords, its always a stuck pressure relief valve, gunked up by too infrequent oil changes or damaged somehow. the sometimes also stick open, with obvious results... Edited February 19, 2018 by qwakers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveturnbull Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 I've phoned round a couple of local garages and they all seem to agree with the most likely cause being a stuck closed PRV. To fix that means a new oil pump, which on this engine is an over-the-crankshaft type. To fit requires taking pretty much the whole engine apart, so is likely to cost around £400 - £500 all in. It's not a job I'd be confident in doing myself, so would need to farm it out. Regardless, my wife has lost confidence in the car, so it has to go. It's fairly low miles for the age (60k) and apart from this issue in good shape. Do I... 1. Sell it as is, not sure what I'd get. 2. Get it fixed and sell it privately for £1500 3. Sling in some really thin oil, wait for a warm day and drive it to the local webuyanycar (they valued at £1100 on t'internet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lo-fi Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Is that the PRV sticking out towards the oil seal bottom right? See if you can get to it, might be a little plate held in with a circlip if you're lucky. Spring loaded and a bleep to get back on, though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 If it were mine I'd drain the oil - and leave it to drain overnight - then refill with flushing oil, let idle, then drain and repeat before refilling filling with standard oil. Might work, might not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintman Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 ^^^^^ You've nothing to lose & that's worth a try. I'd drain, refit the oil filter so the seal is back in position & refill with the same oil plus a can of Forte Engine flush & let it sit & idle on the drive for an hour - in your case with something under to catch any oil being ejected - or so before draining & refilling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 .....and tapping the oil pump wouldn't hurt either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) Be aware that several Ford engines of this generation can have 'issues' re-priming the oil pump if they're left to drain-down for too long. [similar to the antique Rover-V8 ~~~need to pack the oil-pump with vaseline to get it to suck at first-startup~~~ thing] If you want to try to unstick a stuck relief-valve I'd be more inclined to drain out whatever oil's in there now, then refill with a 50:50 mix of cheap 5W-30 or 0W-30 and ATF. ATF is rich in detergents and is good at clearing carbon/gum from neglected engines. Let it idle for an hour or so, then take it for an "Italian Tune-Up" - a blast down the local motorway/dual-carriageway, using full-throttle acceleration through the gears revving until the rev-limiter cuts in. Then drain/refill and fit a new filter with the 'thinnest' oil that's specified for the engine - 5W30 is what I've used in loads of Fords this century. Edited February 20, 2018 by Tanuki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveturnbull Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 I've ordered some 20w flushing oil, so will sling that in when it arrives and see what happens. It was always regularly serviced by myself and I don't ever recall draining dirty looking oil out of it, so I'd be surprised if it is gunked up as opposed to a mechanical failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Tanuki said: Be aware that several Ford engines of this generation can have 'issues' re-priming the oil pump if they're left to drain-down for too long. [similar to the antique Rover-V8 ~~~need to pack the oil-pump with vaseline to get it to suck at first-startup~~~ thing] Ah yes, good point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveturnbull Posted February 23, 2018 Author Share Posted February 23, 2018 Well I stuck the flushing oil in it today and left it to idle for about an hour whilst I did a few other jobs outside. That seemed to stay on the inside so I took it for the world's slowest Italian tune up (Bournemouth Friday afternoon traffic) over the euro car parts to get some more oil and a filter. Drained the flushing oil which was about as thick as water, cleaned the grit out of the sump threads (good sign?) and refilled with real oil. I'll wait for a cold morning, plenty of those coming up, and start it with a bucket underneath and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintman Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Fingers crossed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveturnbull Posted February 25, 2018 Author Share Posted February 25, 2018 Well I went out this morning, put a bucket underneath and fired it up. The oil seemed quite happy to stay on the inside, so that's progress. Temp gauge said it a 0 degrees outside. Fingers crossed it plays nicely tomorrow too, as the wife has stolen my car and I really don't fancy cycling to work this week in the freezing cold and snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveturnbull Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 Well after yesterdays success, I filled the car up with kids and all their associated junk, bucket underneath, started it up, all seemed good so off we go. For a whole 100 yards before the oil light comes back on. FFS. Somebody please pass me the swan vestas.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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