ianmayco68 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Hi all , we all know that defender and series heaters at a guess are not the best , although you can get them to work pretty well they're not very versatile with the controls and are one of the more common gripes . I'd already planned to modify the heater on my project 90 and have been nosing around on the web and ebay when I came across this firm https://www.t7design.co.uk/ just having a quick look around there site they have a lot of interesting stuff in the universal heating for car's , don't know whether anyone has come across or posted up there site before so I thought I'd put the link up for anyone that interested in this sort of modification . cheers Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HampshireHog Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Hi ian , ive got some odds and sods from these people in the past , quick postage etc , they carry heating install gear ...........https://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmayco68 Posted March 3, 2018 Author Share Posted March 3, 2018 Yes I've had some other stuff of them and seen there heater stuff good company , was looking at one of there heater module's then came across these people who do a more powerful unit . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Some food for thought there. Be interested to see if it could be integrated into an old housing to save some bulkhead hacking...may be worth a punt rather than shelling out on a webasto or eberspacher unit. My eberspacher in the van is great but it doesn't half make some racket! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supaimpy Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 The source of the heat unless your going to use PTC , will be the same, its waste heat from the engine, your then still trying to exchange heat from water to air via the heater matrix, the best mod would be to recirculate the air rather than contine to draw in cold external ambient air. Pushing more air over the matrix does not equate to getting more heat transfer, a 4kw water heater added to the system makes for a toasty landie as it supplements the waste heat. A 2kw air heater fitted to the vehicle recirculating the air thru it will keep a landie warm. An air heater (fuel operated ) will typically put out 80c but if its drawing in air thats below 0c then it stands to reason the output will be lower. The flap controls make a huge difference, the gasket at the bulkhead between the heater box , the state of the foam seals inside the heater box, loads can be done before making modifcations by swapping out parts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 As someone that lives where -40 weather is not uncommon, I'm very familiar with all heater options and the capability of the Defender heater. I've carefully measured heat outputs of differing setups. For your climate the stock heater is more than adequate. You are best off taking the time to get your heater working properly. It is a simple job and you will be perfectly fine down to -20. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 1 hour ago, supaimpy said: The source of the heat unless your going to use PTC , will be the same, its waste heat from the engine, your then still trying to exchange heat from water to air via the heater matrix, the best mod would be to recirculate the air rather than contine to draw in cold external ambient air. Pushing more air over the matrix does not equate to getting more heat transfer, a 4kw water heater added to the system makes for a toasty landie as it supplements the waste heat. Lack of engine heat is not a concern. I have a heater in my truck that outputs 2.5 times the heat of the stock heater. There is no problem with the 200TDI providing enough heat for it to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Scotts90 said: Some food for thought there. Be interested to see if it could be integrated into an old housing to save some bulkhead hacking...may be worth a punt rather than shelling out on a webasto or eberspacher unit. My eberspacher in the van is great but it doesn't half make some racket! I thought they could be quite quiet ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 It should be very quiet. Their MAIN use is for boats and truck for overnight use while people sleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Are these the things used in ambulances in the UK? They make a blowing sort of noise you can hear when you walk past them. I think they are only noisey when you can hear them without the engine clattering away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Very quiet? We have a fleet fitted with them and there's not a quiet one amongst them. The least noisy ones are inside purpose built covers with inlet and exhaust air outlets. If it was fitted external/under slung then it would be a great deal quieter. They are a constant source of inquiry from passer-bys and customers as to "what's making that noise". These are all eberspacher airtronics. Now in contrast the water units fitted to the D3/4/5 are virtually silent with usually only a slight whirring and a puff of exhaust smoke evident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmayco68 Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 The heater in my 110 warms up quickly and puts out some heat I totally rebuilt the heater box when I rebuilt the truck , the main reason for looking was to make better use of the heat if I wasn't rebuilding the 90 I probably wouldn't have bothered looking at them but while I'm spending money on rebuilding that heater box on the 90 if I can purchase a unit that is better and more versatile then its got to be worth a punt . I personally think the way the standard heater works makes it easy to loose heat and the force of the air ,there are I liked the idea of the 4 output pipes direct from the blower you could run one to each screen vent and use the other two for side vents to the doors and the blower has a 3 speed motor and none of those fiddly cables, I've got one of them side window demister kits fitted it works but could be a lot better . cheers Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Apologies Ian for a slight detour but through this thread I'm getting conflicting messages about the Eberspächer heaters. Here they are being spoken of as noisy but in the other recent thread (referenced below) I don't think this was referred to. What is the general consensus about using them in a 110, engine off, for overnight warmth? Are they noisy or is it something to do with type of use or maybe even the way they are installed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmayco68 Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 No apology needed Peaklander . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 If you fit them with a short exhaust and no silencers then they do roar away, but you hear it more outside than inside. The one on my 109 has a short exhaust with no silencer and roars but you can't hear it over the V8 anyway. The ambulance, by comparison, has about 6' of exhaust AND intake pipe WITH the Eberspacher silencers fitted in both and is much quieter - you can still hear it outside but nowhere near as much. Inside it's fine to sleep with as you only really hear the blower. Also, being toasty warm does help with the sleeping 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supaimpy Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 seldom get complaints on noise from exhausts, usual moan is the fuel pump ticking, as has been said exhaust and combustion air silencers do cut the noise, and the fuel pump if mounted using the rubber block can also be silenced to an acceptable level. Air heaters are more noisy than water heaters as they have to push a larger volume of air over the heatexchanger, you can't hear my Hydronic running on my 110 unless you stand right alongside 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Ok for the Eberspächers that's clarified things thanks. Hydronic - that’s a water circuit and a stand-alone system too or is it in the engine water circuit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 I have one more diesel air heater question - what’s the best way to mount the intake so it has some chance of surviving wading? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Peak, while the water heater unit itself is quieter than the air heater, the water heater type will need the vehicle's blower to be on, so you'll get comparable noise levels. The air type will be more efficient on the battery as it is only powering the tiny fuel pump and the air blower, while the water type is running a bigger fuel pump and a water pump as well as the car's blower. So, which is better depends on your needs. For most, the airblower is better, but if you need to preheat your engine, or want to merely supplement the heat from the engine (like the TD5, which runs quite cool) without fitting new ducts and vents inside the vehicle, then the water type may be better. Anyway, nice find, Ian. I quite fancy fitting some of their vents to my dash to have more air in the cab from the lower fascia, directable to the occupants, and might mod the heater system to have a bigger matrix for more heat and one of their big capacity blowers. One of their Bowden cable operated valves to control coolant flow through the matrix for temperature control, like on a SIII, would make the whole system perform better in winter without using up extra space. Otherwise, I may just stick with plan B of moving the fuse box from below the fascia and fitting a 300Tdi Discovery heater system in its place with supply ducted from one of those big double blowers through the lower fascia. That's need a lot of custom housing and some fiddly beautification, though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 11 hours ago, Anderzander said: I have one more diesel air heater question - what’s the best way to mount the intake so it has some chance of surviving wading? Mount it in an easily accessible point so you can put a sealed cap over the intake? I don't think a snorkel will work for the fuel burning side as it may stagnate the airflow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmayco68 Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 Cheers Nick I had a look at Discovery heaters 300tdi/TD5 but couldn't work out the size of them and if I could get one to fit , but it is still a possibility as I was planning on moving the fuse box from were it is now and building a custom loom . Have been looking into whether you could use a disco TD5 fuse boards one in the engine bay and then cabin one under the seat can't see why it wouldn't be possible and the bonus is the fuses and relays are wired in to the fuse box by a printed copper circuit so no wires to worry about . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supaimpy Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 The combustion air pipe can be raised , my hydronic heater is mounted where the washer bottle used to sit so the combustion air pipe is tucked up inside the engine bay, trickier with an airtronic though as heater generally fitted on the floor or back wall of cab internally, just be careful with max lenght of combustion air pipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 As I said before, the intake + exhaust on the ambulance are on the opposite side to where the heater is so both have about 6' of pipe connected + silencers... I doubt you need more than 6' of snorkel on your heater. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 At the other end of the scale - I noticed that the planar fitting instructions cite needing 50mm of space at the intake end and 150mm at the outlet end ... but I’ve seen a few air heaters installed in seatboxes where the outlet has the tiniest length of pipe to bring it into the footwell.... what do you think that’s about? Is it to so with how hot the unit itself gets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) The eberspacher on my lorry was in the storage area under the bed at the head end and blew the hot air out through a vent near the drivers seat. The only noise off it was the fan blowing and didn't cause me any problems sleeping. (being parked next to a fridge lorry was another story ) On the boat there was no noise in the living area, you had to put your hand over a vent to know it was running, the only anti social bit was the white smoke out the side. Maybe there are different types? I've seen cars with electric heaters in the engine water circuit to keep the temperature up in very cold conditions and to warm the water more quickly on startup which gives you heat much more quickly although it won't give you more heat. I would've loved one in my Isuzu, in winter it took about 5 miles before the temp needle came off the bottom and the engine would go cold if left idling. Thermostat was ok though. Is your engine running at the right temperature? Edited March 6, 2018 by Cynic-al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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