6cyl SWB?

[BigJ]

7 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Changing the bulkhead won't change where your engine + box sit, that's what engine + transmission mounts are for and yes it was *all* different on the 6cyl.

Sorry, I didn’t explain myself very well. I was trying to figure out if the gearbox mounts for the 4&6 cylinder models were in the same place on the chassis or if on the 6 cylinder they sat further back on the chassis hence the need for the different bulkhead. I’m assuming in this that the distance at the front for the fan, radiator, front panel etc is the same on both models. Or, is it just the position of the engine mounts that differs between them?

From what I can gather what others have done is keep the gearbox in it’s original place, change the bellhousing and fit the 6 pot by moving the original mounts forward by a few inches. 

Apart from hole patterns is there any other difference in dimensions between the 4&6 pot bellhousings?

[lo-fi]

The gearbox is indeed mounted further back in the 109. To accommodate this, the crossmember immediately behind the hand brake drum is also further back in the chassis - about two~three inches if memory serves. 

Do bear in mind that finding a six pot in decent order is pretty hard and/or expensive these days, and parts are also expensive. The humble V8 will be an easier fit in a SWB, return same or better mileage and cost far less. They also weigh a lot less! They're hefty bits of iron those old blocks, as you've already figured out.

I'm doing a six pot for a late 2A restoration, because I want to keep it as originally built - the cost is vaguely eye watering. I bought the best "running" P4 engine I could in the hope I could get away without rebuilding the seized LR engine, but for many hundreds of pounds I got a block that's worn through the coating on the bearings shells and has bores worn enough to require oversize pistons and a rebore. It runs, but it's far from healthy. Now I know what I'm looking for, I'm struggling to find better.

I understand the urge to do something different, and they're lovely old things, but I'd question it being worth the work. My 2p worth, anyway. 

[Bigj66]

Another gearbox query if anyone can help, are the six and four cylinder boxes the same except for the bell housing and if so are the bell housings interchangeable?

Same question for the flywheel.

[Michele]

I'm in the middle of converting my ex mil 109" IIA to 3 lt Rover (Westlake head, Weber carb), keeping the factory bulkhead (mine's LHD).
The engine sounds great on stand, I'm glad to hear such positive comments about those who owned one, I hope it will perform as good as it sounds :-)

[Bigj66]

29 minutes ago, Michele said:

I'm in the middle of converting my ex mil 109" IIA to 3 lt Rover (Westlake head, Weber carb), keeping the factory bulkhead (mine's LHD).
The engine sounds great on stand, I'm glad to hear such positive comments about those who owned one, I hope it will perform as good as it sounds :-)

I didn’t realise there was a Weber conversion available, do you have any further details please?

 

[Michele]

Actually there isn't a conversion available, it just happened the factory carb was shot beyond repair, so I switched to a 32/36 DGV, which needed a custom billet adapter.
Here's a photo of the thing.

[FridgeFreezer]

On 17/03/2018 at 5:25 PM, Bigj66 said:

Another gearbox query if anyone can help, are the six and four cylinder boxes the same except for the bell housing and if so are the bell housings interchangeable?

Same question for the flywheel.

Do these help?

[Bigj66]

They sure do Mr Freezer, thank you very much 👍. My engine is the 3.0 out of a P4 Rover but hopefully the 2.6 bell housing, flywheel and clutch will bolt straight on. I notice the gearbox numbers are different though. Are the 4&6 cylinder boxes interchangeable or do they have different ratios?

[FridgeFreezer]

At a guess the input shafts may be different lengths / diameters / splines to suit the bellhousing / clutch / flywheel / crank spigot bush. The parts book is online as a free pdf, I'll leave it to you

[secondjeremy]

4 - 6 cylinder boxes.

 

Leaving aside the 1 tonne box the 6 cylinder has a different gear lever.

There are 2 bellhousing bolt patterns - one for ioe engines - 1.6, 2.0, amd 6 cylinder and another for OHV engines.

Then there's the larger layshaft bearings of the later S2/2a boxes

Then the S3 clutch cylinders - avaiable for both types of bellhousing.

 

[Bigj66]

3 hours ago, secondjeremy said:

4 - 6 cylinder boxes.

 

Leaving aside the 1 tonne box the 6 cylinder has a different gear lever.

There are 2 bellhousing bolt patterns - one for ioe engines - 1.6, 2.0, amd 6 cylinder and another for OHV engines.

Then there's the larger layshaft bearings of the later S2/2a boxes

Then the S3 clutch cylinders - avaiable for both types of bellhousing.

 

Cheers for the info. I’m hoping to retain a full synchro box but it sounds like I need to source a complete S3 6 cylinder box rather than just bolt a 6 cylinder bell housing to my existing 2.25 box which I thought I could do originally.

[Bigj66]

The engine mounts on the six cylinder engine seem to be about 6” further forward of those on the four cylinder block. Is the depth of the six cylinder bell housing the same as the four cylinder one in which case would it just be a matter of moving the existing mounts 6” further toward the front of the chassis?

If so then that would put the new engine mount where that bracing is to the left of the bolt. 🤨 If the six cylinder bell housing was not as deep as the four cylinder one then that would help as there’s still a bit of room at the back of the engine bay for the six cylinder to sit closer to the bulkhead.

[Jeremy1]

I’ll reply to your PM in a bit, but I did take a couple of quick photos for you!

 

 

[Bigj66]

Cheers Jeremy. Those photos make things much clearer. If you didn’t use the mechanical fan do you think you might avoid the need to remove some of the radiator surround? Does the crank pulley or sump come close to any fixtures or the crossmember?

[Bigj66]

This is the engine I have planned for the conversion. It’s out of a 1965 P5 auto and more or less complete but will require a full strip down and rebuild. Torque converter needs to come off and the dyno replaced with an alternator. Convert the dizzy to points free operation and hopefully the angle of the exhaust manifold should allow a relatively easy adaptation to the existing down pipe.

 

[Bigj66]

Some more photos, still experimenting with posting pictures 🙄 Not sure how to resize them to make them fit the screen. First two were attached direct from my iPad. These are done via post image.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Bigj66

[Jeremy1]

Looks nice! I’ve just bought another engine, 3.0 Weslake. No plans for it yet!

[Bigj66]

1 hour ago, Jeremy1 said:

Looks nice! I’ve just bought another engine, 3.0 Weslake. No plans for it yet!

I believe that’s what this one is, the 130bhp version. Not sure what the wooden handle is on top of the rocker cover? Maybe for the jack?

[Cornish Rattler]

19 hours ago, Bigj66 said:

I believe that’s what this one is, the 130bhp version. Not sure what the wooden handle is on top of the rocker cover? Maybe for the jack?

Noise deadening sound bar

Engine should sound great in your landy

[Bigj66]

I’m in the middle of building a workshop to house the rebuild of the 88 along with the engine conversion. Once I’m up and running I’ll start a proper build thread as I think I’m going to need a chuck up with this one.

Ideal world would have been fitting this engine into a ‘66 LWB but I don’t have one so the 88 will have to do.

[Bigj66]

The search is on for a bell housing to do the conversion. Have I understood it right that the Series 2a & Series 3 6 pot bell housings are the same as the 2.0 Series 1s? Might make the search a bit easier if they are...

If anyone knows of any bell housings, flywheels or other 6 cylinder parts for sale a PM would be appreciated.

One other question. The donor engine for mine came off an auto P5. I know I will need to remove the torque converter etc but does anyone know if the flywheel housing is still the same as the Landrover one? There’s a picture of it earlier in the thread.

[Soren Frimodt]

42 minutes ago, Bigj66 said:

The search is on for a bell housing to do the conversion. Have I understood it right that the Series 2a & Series 3 6 pot bell housings are the same as the 2.0 Series 1s? Might make the search a bit easier if they are...

If anyone knows of any bell housings, flywheels or other 6 cylinder parts for sale a PM would be appreciated.

One other question. The donor engine for mine came off an auto P5. I know I will need to remove the torque converter etc but does anyone know if the flywheel housing is still the same as the Landrover one? There’s a picture of it earlier in the thread.

If we weren't so darn far apart I have a 6 cyl LR shortblock with flywhell clutch etc you could have for free! It has thrown a rod so not worth much, next stop the scrappy!

[Arjan]

Forum Relay ?

[Bigj66]

1 hour ago, Arjan said:

Forum Relay ?

No need Arjan, I’m in DK several times a month so calling in to see Soren won’t be a problem as he’s quite close to where I work.

Carrying a flywheel in my suitcase though....💪

[steve b]

9 hours ago, Soren Frimodt said:

If we weren't so darn far apart I have a 6 cyl LR shortblock with flywhell clutch etc you could have for free! It has thrown a rod so not worth much, next stop the scrappy!

I'm pretty sure a lot of stuff is compatible with the 4 cyl IOE such as oil pump rods and pistons , exhaust rockers then all the external stuff on the front and back too so maybe worth stripping the common stuff to sell/pass on ?

I may have what you need bigj66 , I'm going to be in my Series 1 storage at the weekend looking for an early 4 cyl dizzy for someone so will check

cheers

Steve b