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Interesting project, and clearly capable with the machining of bits!

I don't know what ratios mogs are but 37" or bigger tyres will help your gearing for sure - just beware the sort of tyres that work on a 5-ton Mog or truck do not work so well with a <2 Ton land rover as they won't flex at all, and there's not enough weight for them to bite. I had some XZL's from Dirtydiesel, neither of us got on with them as they were so rigid.

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MOG final drive ratio after the portal reduction is 7.08 the 1:1 tcase is almost essential if it’s ever going to go some distance. Mogs with a 1:1 box and 37s is basically the same as a defender with a 1.6 box iirc been a while since I’ve done the numbers

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MOG final drive ratio after the portal reduction is 7.08 the 1:1 tcase is almost essential if it’s ever going to go some distance. Mogs with a 1:1 box and 37s is basically the same as a defender with a 1.6 box iirc been a while since I’ve done the numbers

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Kind of figured truck tyres would have limited flex have been looking at light truck tyres so got some IROKs off eBay today pick them up Tuesday they are 36 inch but measure in at 36.8 got them for a song in my opinion £110 each definitely looking at transfer gears but won't be ready for them untill next year

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7.08 isn't *too* bad, it's almost exactly what my Volvos were before I swapped ratios.

With the 1:1 LT230 (as I run) and 36-ish tyres it's revvy but not a million miles off a stock Defender on 205's and low ratio is :wub:

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Kind of figured truck tyres would have limited flex have been looking at light truck tyres so got some IROKs off eBay today pick them up Tuesday they are 36 inch but measure in at 36.8 got them for a song in my opinion £110 each definitely looking at transfer gears but won't be ready for them untill next year

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Sorry for the repeat I hate tablets Does anyone know where I can buy some 404 portal box gaskets as not much info on net could make them if no joy

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I will try eBay again only kits found up to now we're from America no desperate rush as have axles / halfshafts to shorten at some point could always verifier the thickness and buy some gasket paper thanks for the info DD

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Have you tried Atkinson Vos? they should be able to supply the gasket kit .

Steve b

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Tried Atkinson Voss nothing showing on website have since found them on eBay must of had a senior moment yesterday on another note 5 of my calibre brackets ground and flap wheeled to shape 3 more to do pleased I,'ve got a good supply of discs

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I'd avoid atkinson vos if possible, Westfield are very good for 404's i beleive and south cave are always extremely helpful, they have hauled me out the poo a few times.

I have some 335/80R20 xzls if you need something to roll with. Im not surprised you didn't get on with them on the 109 they don't work on a mog 😂

 

will.

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On 11/6/2018 at 8:02 AM, Stellaghost said:

I will try eBay again only kits found up to now we're from America no desperate rush as have axles / halfshafts to shorten at some point could always verifier the thickness and buy some gasket paper thanks for the info DD

How much shorter do you intend to make them? I used unimogs at work, have a 418 myself and numerous friends with older mogs. I don't think I've ever found them too wide under any circumstance I've ever been exposed to. Is there a class of competition you need to conform to that requires an especially narrow vehicle? I understand if it's to fit within the profile of the lightweight. I'm impressed with the machining you're doing. I think you could only work with the earlier series one or two hubs that were steel, the later ones are unweldable.

I've found Atkinson Vos very helpful although they do charge like a wounded bull, I'd heartily recommend AC Price and also hear good things about South Cave Tractors for Unimog parts.

The portal drop will really help your clearance of the body work flexing with big tyres. What are your plans for drivetrain and suspension?
I'm building a couple of portal axled buggies just now so I'm very interested in your progress.

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How much shorter is the leading question at the moment I run Range Rover axles and they already stick out about 3" either side due to lightweight being narrower than standard series / defender ideally I don't want to be any or much wider than this.

Quite honestly the whole project is a learning curve for me and I find fabrication  to "that looks right" easier than trying to get my head around all the calculations that can be required. Having modified the Mog rims and now picking tyres up on Tuesday I hope to assemble the axle to see where I am with regards to width The half shafts are all different diameters and on a couple of them I plan to extend the splines and shorten the ends as appose to cutting out the middle and joining together

Suspension wise I am looking at keeping the rear set up but extending it and the trailing arms as I believe I will need to move axle back to allow me to accommodate the longer mog diffs on the front I am looking at single link and moving the radius arms to inside the chassis rails.

At the moment I run a 200tdi and lt77 but considering changing to a 300tdi and r380 box Ashcroft do a stubby bell housing and shaft but was wondering if short defender bell housing and shaft from lt77 can be grafted onto the r380 Will be changing gears in transfer box also

.I plan on offering up engine and box joined together and set it up so prop shafts are the same length At the moment my lightweight sits at a true 88" from when I coiled it but will need to lengthen the wheel base to around 98" /100" so definately moving back axle  and the front one if I have to I have previously made radius and cranked trailing arms and these have been on for several years with no issues will obviously need to be beefed up as axles way heavier 

Do you have any build threads on your buggies would be good to see maybe knock a few ideas off each other What are you using buggies for ?

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On 11/10/2018 at 4:41 AM, Stellaghost said:

 Suspension wise I am looking at keeping the rear set up but extending it and the trailing arms as I believe I will need to move axle back to allow me to accommodate the longer mog diffs on the front I am looking at single link and moving the radius arms to inside the chassis rails.

The lightweight will probably look better with a slightly longer wheelbase, even a regular 88" needs to be about 91" to put the wheel in the middle of the arch. You'll probably end up with a much longer wheelbase than that to keep decent length props. Remember that as you extend the A frame rearwards that the forces on it become very much greater. The mounting points need to be very robust indeed and ideally spaced further apart than standard. Perhaps you could redesign the chassis to keep it lower for longer and have the a frame mounts on top of the rail before it steps up at the tub outriggers? I made a chassis the width of a land rover one but put holes through it with an oval tube and used creeper joints on the outside of it. The joints were at an angle but had enough misalignment to manage the travel OK. The creepers also have a little bit of give in them also reducing the loadings on the chassis and everything.
Could you tell us the distance from the pinion flange to the centre of the axle on the 404's please?

For the front do you mean inboard radius arms or a onelink which attaches like inboard radius arms at the axle but has a central pivot under the gearbox somewhere?

On 11/10/2018 at 4:41 AM, Stellaghost said:

At the moment I run a 200tdi and lt77 but considering changing to a 300tdi and r380 box Ashcroft do a stubby bell housing and shaft but was wondering if short defender bell housing and shaft from lt77 can be grafted onto the r380 Will be changing gears in transfer box also

How much shorter is the stubby box than the already stubby 200tdi setup?
Are you familiar with the Rakeway shortened rear output shaft and housing? It'll save you nearly three inches which is probably a lot in that. http://www.rakeway.co.uk/page12.html
Don't shoot me or hate me too much but if you're going to change the engine and box, is there a transaxle setup that would work instead? Obviously it depends if it's going to do any road miles due to the gearing but maybe something to consider that would allow you to leave the suspension more or less as is. Other than the rear trailing arms the rest should be fine with not too silly tyres on.

On 11/10/2018 at 4:41 AM, Stellaghost said:

Do you have any build threads on your buggies would be good to see maybe knock a few ideas off each other

I don't. the last thread I had was my old stage one which grew a set of sumb portals. 

 

After that thread I made another chassis for it and put a cummins engine in and totally reworked it to the point that the only land rover bit was the windscreen and it wasn't really a land rover any more,  so I didn't think it relevant here. I also only got to work on it infrequently as I worked overseas so the thread kinda lost momentum, I only got two weeks off some years but now I jacked my job in maybe more progress will happen with it. Of relevance to the lightweight is that I chose the sumb axles based on the diff position and short diff nose. It uses A frames back and front giving high roll centres to clear the body at 30º of articulation with 52" tyres and to get decent link separation. Side slope stability should be good too but the body will move a lot at speed on bumps.

The other thing I'm working on just now which was supposed to be a wee quick scrapheap challenge type build so I had a toy while the other thing's getting built is a Volvo C304 buggy which I put a chevy v8 in and a most ridiculous front suspension on that I'm frankly too embarrassed to make public till I finish it and see if it works first. It's 6x6 and maybe pivot steer as well. It has an lt95 so almost relevant here but again, I doubt it would be of much interest to many here on a landy forum.

 

On 11/10/2018 at 4:41 AM, Stellaghost said:

What are you using buggies for ?

My buggies are just toys, having portals with big tyres and a poor steering lock would make them hopelessly uncompetitive in any competitions these days where squeezing between trees has more value than any kind of cross country performance. They may be suitable as marshals vehicles however as both will have fairly decent crank driven hydraulic pumps and winches.

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I for one would be interested in seeing your builds documented on here Jamie , it's all relevant fabricating tech and I'm sure would be of interest to others too

cheers

Steve b

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Length of pinion to centre of axle is 19" about 8" longer than landrover set up although with a little work I can take an inch off the pinion length

Front suspension you are correct   I am looking at moving radius arms inside chassis rails and connecting them together at a single point off a strengthened cross member with a rose / creeper joint one I'm looking at has a 30mm fine thread and 30mm bore should be plenty strong going to move shocks inside as well don't know whether to go for single  or double each corner picture to follow

 

Had not seen the rakeway conversion but need a Speedo as lightweight is going to be road legal on that note I still have series box from lt77 conversion this would also give me a lot more room but not sure if it will be strong enough

I would like to give a big thank you to all for your comments and advice I find it very valuable indeed keep it coming

  Stephen

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Yes please Jamie that's the whole point of this section... land rover... maybe...interesting.. definitely.

Mike

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16 hours ago, Jamie_grieve said:

At the moment I run a 200tdi and lt77 but considering changing to a 300tdi and r380 box Ashcroft do a stubby bell housing and shaft but was wondering if short defender bell housing and shaft from lt77 can be grafted onto the r380 Will be changing gears in transfer box also

Not without a lot of trouble, I think. What you can do is fit the engine bell house side from the 200 tdi to the 300 tdi engine. Than the LT77 fits. The strength is virtually the same, especially if it is an LT77S (last version, with wider gears), which if it is from a 200 tdi, it should be. I have run this setup for years and much prefer the LT77 for off roading, since reverse is next to 1st and second. Transfer box fits to either, as mentioned before, use the 1.003 version with portals. These can be found in range rover v8 automatics.

16 hours ago, Jamie_grieve said:

I doubt it would be of much interest to many here on a landy forum.

You are making an assumption here, and you know what assuming does... We want a build thread! This the modified and special builds section and pretty much anything goes.

Daan

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6 hours ago, Stellaghost said:

Front suspension you are correct   I am looking at moving radius arms inside chassis rails and connecting them together at a single point off a strengthened cross member with a rose / creeper joint one I'm looking at has a 30mm fine thread and 30mm bore should be plenty strong going to move shocks inside as well don't know whether to go for single  or double each corner picture to follow

The type of springs will you employ may well dictate the amount and positioning of dampers. I also chose to move my airshocks inside the chassis. Moving your shocks inboard will also move your shocks away from the chassis instead of towards (as long as your roll centre is above the axle) it under articulation and is half the reason I did it that way.When stiff enough to prevent excessive roll, they'll also assist with avoiding the front diving under braking. I also employed a one link as you intend to but I used an SU joint from Frogfab in Canada. This is because I wanted 30º of articulation and didn't want anything to bind if something ever broke. The crossmember I made for it is in the picture. The surface area of the ball is quite large. They do compromise ground clearance right in the wrong place but they also protect the front prop, mine hangs down 5" below the chassis. They also allow much greater vertical wheel travel without extending the slip joint on the front prop depending on where you put the joint. Remember your pinion angle at ride height as it will only ever be right once.

A rod end as you suggest with the 30mm shank and bore would be well up to the job as long as the radial and angular deflections are within your parameters. Be careful with creeper joints, they're very strong but have very poor angular deflection at just over 12º each way, not the 40º as advertised.

6 hours ago, Stellaghost said:

Had not seen the rakeway conversion but need a Speedo as lightweight is going to be road legal on that note I still have series box from lt77 conversion this would also give me a lot more room but not sure if it will be strong enough

 

You could always do that digitally with a hall sensor and reluctor off your handbrake or somewhere? I think that three inches will be vital to you, the difference in the angle of your prop at say 20" vs 23" is 1 1/2" of wheel travel at the diff, that might be 4" at the wheels in articulation. 

 

I'm humbled at the interest in my build, I'll resurrect the thread and carry it on from where it left off.

IMG_0124.jpg

Edited by Jamie_grieve

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Disc brake caliper brackets some progress made last picture shows mock up of caliper, disc and portal box still holes and other bits to sort

20181105_133207.jpg

20181106_122417.jpg

20181117_093432.jpg

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