An tips - seemingly impossible refit of fuel tank

[Jimsky Korsokov]

Defender 90 (2002) TD5  - Really struggling to refit fuel tank and tank guard. Any tips greatly appreciated. There's just so little space to work in. Got the tank located but getting the guard into position seems impossible. Struggled for ages to get the front located over the chassis carriers but it all fell out went i tried to edge it forward to get the cross member studs in place. Big hammers, jacks, blocks of wood ...... should it really be this difficult? Thanks, Jim 

[western]

try fixing the stone guard to the tank with some cable ties [ty-wraps] they can stay in place once its fitted.

[Jimsky Korsokov]

Thanks Western, that could help with assembly and I'll give it a go. Looking at the modding options from Paddock spares I see their replacement guards bolt on from below (rather than having to be positioned on top of the rails) which should make everything much easier (just a jack to help position it and then pop the bolts in). Don't think it will be the last time I ever remove the fuel tank so probably worth investing £60 in a new guard - looks a lots nice too being carved out of thick aluminium. The current configuration looks like its designed more for assembly from above rather than dropping out below. Thanks again, Jim

[Scotts90]

Lots of wiggling! Having the tank empty as possible helps, I placed a trolley jack underneath with a piece of wood to keep it roughly in situ whilst locating the studs. The OE one I removed from the current project was rotten through, I'm planning on using the YRM aluminium version to replace it.

[western]

I found a new galvanised guard for my 110's tank, it got painted before fit, so not much chance of it corroding away., also sealed the gap between tank & guard to keep water out.

[Scotts90]

I think they usually last quite well, my td5 was a particularly neglected example and the cost between a new OE or the YRM version isn't much. The tank bracket on the white 90 is unmarked after 4yrs but it gets regularly washed underneath.

[Ed Poore]

Different but on my 300Tdi 110 I found the easiest was to lie on my back and support the tank on my knees to help position it all in place. Easier than using the jack I found.

[Retroanaconda]

The Td5 90 setup is designed to be dropped in from the top and indeed the rear tub actually holds the tank in place. This is in contrast to the 110 setup which goes in nice and easily from underneath.

I’ve seen people modify the 90 setup so that the carrier bolts to the underside of the cradle rather than sits on top, this allows the tank to be slotted in easily from below.

[Jimsky Korsokov]

Thanks guys - that all makes good sense. I have seen a good rear cross section replacement article where they chose to go 'down from the top' rather than 'up from below' - now I understand a good reason why. I looked at the YRM guard - looks nice in 6mm Aluminium but at nearly £180 posted its a bit rich for me. Determined to ditch the existing plate and reconfigure for a downward take out next time - Paddock Spares do a good looking 6mm Aluminium guard for the TD5 90 which comes in at £87 including VAT and postage. I'd easily pay that to avoid having another go with what I've got. On order now and have stuck everything else back on in anticipation of an easy job. Thanks for your help - really appreciated. Jim

[Dave W]

2 hours ago, Jimsky Korsokov said:

Thanks guys - that all makes good sense. I have seen a good rear cross section replacement article where they chose to go 'down from the top' rather than 'up from below' - now I understand a good reason why. I looked at the YRM guard - looks nice in 6mm Aluminium but at nearly £180 posted its a bit rich for me. Determined to ditch the existing plate and reconfigure for a downward take out next time - Paddock Spares do a good looking 6mm Aluminium guard for the TD5 90 which comes in at £87 including VAT and postage. I'd easily pay that to avoid having another go with what I've got. On order now and have stuck everything else back on in anticipation of an easy job. Thanks for your help - really appreciated. Jim

Next time ?

Do yourself and any future owner a massive favour and fit an inspection panel above the pump assembly, that way the chances are you'll never have to remove the tank again. I removed the tank on ours once... after spending several hours persuading it to go back in again, the next time I wanted access to the pump I cut an inspection plate in the floor instead !

You can make a large enough cutout, without cutting any reinforcing ribs, to have easy access to the pump, it's pipes and electrical connector, as well as being able to remove and refit it.

Faced with the job again I would never try and remove a 90 tank unless the tank itself was damaged in some way.

Anyway, if you've not got it refitted yet, ISTR that using a second jack to lift the body up can help clear the axle but the tank is pretty much compressed against the underneath of the tub reinforcing bars to get the carrier/guard into position. As a result you kind of need 3 pairs of hands and a couple of trolley jacks. You may find that releasing the rear of the tub (the bolts across the rear cross member) will allow you to lift the blackbody a few mm, which is all it normally takes.

[Jimsky Korsokov]

Wise words - I did find the previous owner had done exactly as you said and cut a hatch over the pump (he’d done lots of very good things like that). I was putting in a new short cross member so the tank had to come out. Ironically I did manage to get everything reassembled after 2 hours of wiggling, jacking, grunting, and light swearing - only to find I had not inserted the tow eye bolts - that was a bad moment of tealisation! Took everything out .... but could not repeat the stunt - awaiting arrival of underbokted plate from paddocks - life will be good again soon. Feel like I’ve been a few rounds wrestling a bear!

[oneandtwo]

Cable ties? Supporting tank with knees?!! Anyone who has not refitted a tank specifically in a td5 or Puma 90 does not realise just how difficult it is!

As above it makes it a lot easier if you unbolt the ten crossmember to tub mounting bolts, the two mounting bolts from the tubular outriggers on each side and possibly the two seatbelt mounting bolts. Then with the front doors open there is enough flex in the roof and screen mounting to enable you to lift the back end of the tub upwards and wedge it up which gives you the necessary clearance from the second tub crossmember for the tank and cradle plate to slide in. I’d suggest it takes more than a few mm though - last one I did needed an inch at the crossmember.

[Eightpot]

Just a thought, but TD5 rear crossmembers are different to TDI and earlier, with a different profile on the inner face (large section of web reshaped to make room for the tank) .  If your new crossmember isn't for TD5 you'll have a hell of a game.  

[cackshifter]

Just read the last comment, and it struck a chord. I have a 300tdi 90 which has just had a new Richards chassis fitted with the TD5 tank mounts (the old tdi tank was an honary colander) and it has a 300tdi rear crossmember (Richards option). The tank I bought to fit it was ex-Puma (turned out to be a good choice as they have effectively the 300tdi  ROW tank connector, no fuel pump). But how to fit a towbar?  I was originally planning a Terrafirma nee Southdown tank guard but supply of them has dried up, so the tank went in on the standard cradle.  I didn't do the re-chassis, and airily thought I can whack a towbar on afterwards. I need to tow a horse trailer so I can't just have a tow hitch high up. But getting a towbar in is something else. The tank has to come out to do that, and I am going to replace the cradle with a YRM example. If anyone has done anything similar, I would be very interested in their solution. I do have a cunning plan to overcome it, and I am almost ready to try it out, but I don't know yet whether it will work. Nigel

[Scotts90]

Why has the tank to come out? All the fixing points should be into captive nuts. The lower arms bolt onto the tank mounts (td5/tdci) unlike the earlier versions which bolted through the chassis rail.

Where I've bolted the td5 brackets on towards the rear (wasn't welding the new chassis) is where the old angle section arms bolted on, the td5 type uses the lower captive fixing on the bracket.

[Retroanaconda]

A 300Tdi crossmember (Richards option) may well have bolt-through fixings for the towbar rather than the captive nuts that the Td5 and onwards use. Requiring some form of access to the back of the crossmember. 

[Les Brock]

It Does indeed have bolt through...^^^^^^^^

[Dave W]

Had a similar issue on mine and I managed to make up a spreader plate, welded the nuts onto it and then managed to feed it up between the tank and the crossmember. It took a bit of doing and some keyhole surgery but it was easier than taking the tank out ! You have to loosen the bolts that hold the front of the guard to the cross member but don't have to actually remove the guard.

Just the two M16 nuts mounted on a 5mm plate at the correct spacing, I wouldn't even consider trying it with the 4 M12 bolts/nuts ! The TD5 has captive nuts, as above, mine was a Richard's Chassis 300TDi with TD5 tank mounting brackets added. 

Bearing in mind I did mine about 6 years ago now, I vaguely remember using an assortment of screwdrivers, spanners and bits of welding rod to manoeuvre the plate into position until I could get a bolt into it.

[oneandtwo]

 

From the original poster it seems he forgot to refit the factory fitted bolts and large spreader washers that attach the rear tie down loops to the chassis and also form the upper mountings for the genuine adjustable hitch. These m10 bolts as standard go through the chassis from the inside of the chassis to the outside, so when the tank is in place they cannot be refitted. If this is the case using the correct length bolts (either 110mm or 100mm) they can go from the outside of the chassis rails inwards with the nuts and spreader washers on the inside, you end up with 5-8mm clearance each side from the tank but they do fit fine.

If you have a 300tdi rear crossmember with a td5 tank how does the tank cradle attach to the crossmember? Presumably the 300tdi crossmember is modified to allow the cradle studs to pass through the crossmember rear face and access holes for the nuts?

[cackshifter]

Well. I am impressed Dave W managed to get a spreader plate in - on mine the tank is in that tight even a gynecologist couldn't do it. It is bolt through fastenings and there are indeed holes in the rear crossmember for the rear cradle fastenings. The bolts for the tie downs aren't fitted either, as oneandtwo surmised.

I plan to remove the tank and slip in the tie down bolts, and also have a 10mm full size spreader plate to go in the crossmember which will have the 16mm and 12mm nuts welded on. Because I need to use the fastenings in the bottom of the crossmember as well, there is also a thin tapping plate to go on top of the bottom of the crossmember with 2 x10mm nuts which the spreader plate sits on. The spreader has cutouts in the bottom edge to clear those nuts, and they are awfully close to the 16mm s. I'm planning to use a Dixon Bate adjustable hitch (a TD5 kit) so the lower braces all fit Ok, including stiffeners for the corners of the tank frame. The top holes in the adjuster use the 16mm bolts in the crossmember. The angle iron brace for the top of the adjustable part doesn't fit because there aren't crossmember holes where it wants them and there is a piece of flat bar welded to the bottom of the crossmember, tapped with 2 x 12mm and a 10mm hole. I had one of the old style fit under towing attachments (and trimmed slightly), found that if fitted on the bottom of the crossmember instead of the official  brace, it lines up with the holes in the adjuster, provided the adjuster is inverted.The DB kit wants you to use 12mm bolts into the corners of the tank cradle by drilling them out, so it will be held by those and the 10mm tie down bolts. At the top it has the 16mm, and the fixed hitch brace is attached to it by 16mm, and to the crossmember by 2 x12 and 3 x10mm . I hope that will be enough - planning also to use a 10mm spreader on the outside of the crossmember. It's probably not exactly what DB would like but then again it doesn't need Type Approval. 

I have the sound crossmember (galvanised) cut from the old chassis - seemed a shame to bin it- and have been using that to trial fit. Most of it is done and in paint at present, but the moment of truth will be when the tank is out, and I have to do it to the actual crossmember, just praying it will all fit. When it had the old chassis with just the fixed hitch a Clio ran into the back of it at some speed - it managed to bend the 10mm drop plate on the bottom of the hitch, but the fixed hitch stayed in place, braced to the anti roll bar brackets, so if the bracing is as strong I think it will be fine.

I am hoping the YRM cradle which fits under the chassis rather than on top will make refitting easy/possible.

 

[Jimsky Korsokov]

Yep, my original issue was that having put it back together I'd stupidity left out the through chassis bolts (no fixed nuts). I had considered chopping the bolts to exact length but didn't think I'd be able to accommodate the big washer and nut against the fuel tank - it is bloody tight. Thought that since I'd got it back together again once that I could do it again ..... I was wrong. I've now received the Paddock spares (£87 all in delivered and VAT) 6mm Aluminium bolt from the underneath fuel tank guard - it is beautiful and shiny. Only problem left is cleaning the galv out of the new rear cross member so I can actually get the x3 M10 bolts in.