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ianmayco68

Wheel wobble

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Hi all , its a 110 200tdi and I've developed a steering wheel wobble . When doing over 50 if I'm going along a bad bit of road all of a sudden the steering wheel shake's back and forth violently , if I brake and slow down it stops and then it accelerates away as normal . It did do it before and I checked the tyre pressure's and adjusted the steering box and its been fine since up until sunday coming back from green laning . 

I have read some other posts on the net about similar problems but thought I'd ask everyone's opinion before I start stripping her down , before she went on the road 12 months ago after the rebuild I had replaced the swivel balls and all the bushes are poly bushes , the steering damper is about 6 months old and an OME one . 

Things I've checked so far -

panhard rod doesn't appear to have any play in it or any of the ball joints

Jacked each wheel in turn and there is a slight play in the drivers side wheel bearing but not a lot .

have re-adjusted the steering box but there doesn't appear to be any play , although I have noticed that when turning left into our gate there appears to be some play in the steering when the wheels are turned .

steering damper appears to be fine .

could the slight movement in the wheel bearing cause this ? and are there any other easy things I can check before I strip the wheels down and check the pre-load on the swivels , which I did set when I rebuilt them .

Any help much appreciated cheers Ian

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My "Death Wobble" was rarely one single thing, it was always a combination. Generally it was a swivel with very little pre-load and a panhard rod bush. The ones (panhard bushes) I used didn't last 6 months! I also fitted a different damper with a very stiff characteristic.

Cheers

Peter

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I would check the swivel preloads, all the ball joints, steering column ujs and that everything steering related us all torqued up properly. 

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Even slightly worn front radius-arm bushes can make any steering wobble feel a whole lot worse, do you know if they are in good condition?

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The worst wobble I had was a slightly loose steering box - it was tight, but just not tight enough. Pushing by hand was not possible; to get movement you needed a pry bar.

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56 minutes ago, Litch said:

Even slightly worn front radius-arm bushes

They look fine Litch , poly bushes and replaced at same time as all the others .

39 minutes ago, jeremy996 said:

The worst wobble I had was a slightly loose steering box

Will check that tomorrow Jeremy , hadn't thought about that .

 Puffernutter and Stambecco will go round all the bushes and ball joints with a pry bar tomorrow but the ball joints look fine , need to check the steering UJ's but they're only 12 months old as well . I'm starting to think , as there is a very slight play in the wheel that the wheel bearing might need adjusting and the preload on the swivels .

Cheers all Ian

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Mine, albeit on a Disco, was the steering box.  Was weeping anyway, so replaced it (after new bushes, and new swivels) and the wobble went away.

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Mines a recon box , it’s not weeping but the thought had crossed my mind.

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The Wobble-of-Death on my 90TD5 was due to the shock-absorbers: replacing the original factory-fitted ones with yellow Bilstein gas-pressurised ones (not cheap, but quality always costs...) solved the problem totally.

The originals I replaced had done 70,000 miles. The Bilsteins have now done over 100,000 miles without problems - the handling is still better on the used Bilsteins than it was from new with the original factory-fits. And the Bilsteins have a little diagram of the Nürburgring on them, which must be helping the handling...!

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A strong shudder through the steering wheel is usually associated with too little preload on the swivels, so the wheels are free to shake like supermarket trolly castors.  Easy to do a quick check, just pop the front wheels off and undo the TRE's.  The hubs shouldn't swivel easily, if they flop over or move without much resistance just reshim till you get the correct preload. 

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In addition to the above, I would suggest checking the wheel/tyre balance. Sounds simple, but I had an unbalanced 285/75R16 BFG KM2/alloy wheel combination on a truck and occasionally (I guess when the wheels were 'in synch'), they caused a hell of a shudder at around 40mph. Rebalancing fixed the problem permanently.

 

 

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Well been under her today with a pry bar and all the bushes and ball joints are fine , I did find a bit of play in the steering uj’s so have ordered a pair of them as they aren’t expensive , there was also no movement in the actual steering box or any bits attached to it . So next step is check the preload on the swivels and adjust the wheel bearing, which will I’ll have to do tomorrow as I’m off to the hospital to see the father in law and I’ve ordered some shims and grease so got to wait for them to arrive before I start . I kept all the spare shims that came in the swivel overhaul kit but do you think I can find them, can I bugger suppose they’ll turn up when I’ve done the job .

cheers all Ian

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Hi all , checked the preload on the swivel balls and the passenger side was well out , driver's side was fine set it correctly and will be taking her for a spin tomorrow after I've done a few other bits , cheers all for the help .

Ian

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Radius arm bushes were my issue.... not the bushes being knackered but loose in the radius arms. (PO had machined them to need less force to get them in). How do the poly versions go in? Any room for them to move?

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There like 2 top hats Ross you push half in from each side , then push a tube in the middle they were very snug from what I remember . Have had a bar in there and there wasn’t any movement .

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Got a photo for you Ross

90650FD1-B128-4056-B09C-AA4BEFF280E8.thumb.jpeg.b0d293028dc2f7867ce10b835efdd2ea.jpeg1910C9DB-058D-48C5-9128-23417E5AF0DD.thumb.jpeg.efee791ecaf7c641fb3c2aa663abc41d.jpeg

very easy to fit as well, as were all the pollybushes didn’t need a press .

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On 02/05/2018 at 1:19 PM, ianmayco68 said:

Mines a recon box , it’s not weeping but the thought had crossed my mind.

Most recon is almost all con and little "re".  Unless you bought from Adwest, treat with suspicion.

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Well , after doing the preload on the swivel took her for a run and it was still there , so yesterday fitted the steering box off the 90 I’m rebuilding and the steering uj’s finally turned up , UKMail bloody useless, so changed them took her for a quick spin she felt better but had to go out so going to see how she goes on going to work the rest of the week . One thing that’s still puzzling me is when the steering wheel is turned to go left there is a fair bit of play at the steering wheel and it doesn’t feel connected to the steering , this play isn’t there when at top dead centre so could I have a problem with the upper steering column ? Also the top steering uj one end is longer than the other from the joint which way round should it go ? Looked on the web but the curse of photo bucket took all the pics away on the threads I found .

cheers all Ian 

Just checked the play when the wife came back from the hospital and it’s in the box dose it need adjusting a bit more ?

Edited by ianmayco68
Add info

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Yes there should only be very slight play in the box and no tight spots. 

Put the axle up on stands so the wheels are off the floor, then loosen the adjuster on the box and unscrew it out a good few turns. If you stand so your leg is touching the road wheel, you can rock the steering wheel with one hand and wind the steering adjuster in bit by bit. 

When you have about an inch play on the steering wheel before you feel the road wheel twitch, you're about there. 

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Cheers Eightpot have been adjusting it with the wheels on the floor , so that’s were I have gone wrong. 

Cheers Ian

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Play on lock, i.e. once turning, is  normal. Adjustment should only ever be done at the straight ahead position.

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Cheers James , at least that’s not a problem , can’t say I’ve ever noticed it before though . It’s funny how you only notice some things when you’ve got another problem .

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They say it comes in three’s , mine come in great dollops  :rolleyes: . So after adjusting the steering box she feels good again , but not a lot of adjustment left on the box so new one on the shopping list me thinks . So adjusted the steering belt as there was a tiny bit of slack in it then thought I’d just check the back and the top rubbers in the rear shocks both sides have gone , top of the shock is moving about. Have had them over 12 months but have only had 12 months of road use out of them and 1 green laning trip , one day I might have a bit of trouble free  motering but I just couldn’t sell her know. :D . And the gearbox feels a lot better after the oil change as well.

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Rather than start another whole new thread, I thought I'd add some info into this as it covers almost all the bases. My 90 had developed the cursed wobble at 50mph some time ago and I eventually got around to checking both preloads, something that hadn't been checked since the axle was rebuilt.

Initial "pull" tests with the seal in place was between 0 and 0.4kg...very loose but no play at all. Book specs with no seal are between 1.16 and 1.46kg so definitely requiring a tweak.

Couldn't find any official numbers for preload with the seal insitu but an Australian LR site recommended adding 2-2.5kg on for the seal. 3shims out the Nearside and 2 out the Offside saw both pulling at 3-5 - 4kg and they felt smooth and not overly tight or binding on the bearings.

One 30min test drive later and they steering is the best it's been for ages and most of all... No wobble!!

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