Which is best ?

[ianmayco68]

Hi all , looking for some input before I go spending my money , as some may have read my thread in Tools And Fabrication I'm building my own roof rack and I can't make up my mind on what lights to fit across the front . I've got this light bar fitted at the moment from Bolt on Bits https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Light-Roof-bar-4-WIPAC-Spot-Lamps-Wiring-kit-Land-Rover-Defender-90-110-CB-Mount-/230818979518 , its ok but would like a bit more light with out going silly on the £'S front , is there a better bulb I could fit to these lights to give a brighter light ? Or buy some better one's , I not sure about LED light bars are they any good ? I've got LED head lights and I'm not to sure I like them , were as normal lights seem to light the way the LED'S only seem to light up when they have something to rebound off , perhaps it's just the head lights but I've seriously thought of changing back to the standard lights with a upgraded loom . So thought's and recommendations please gents .

cheers Ian

[Scotts90]

I had Rallye 3000s across the front of the 90 with osram night breakers fitted and they were very good...

Plenty bright...

but in response to your led lightbar query...

they are no where near as good as my Rigid lightbar...it has Scanias dipping their lights miles away lol

The lightbar wasn't cheap, but neither were the 3000s.

 

 

 

[Troll Hunter]

I see that in Scott90's poat that he has a white bonnet.  I've had lights fitted on the front of my roof rack and they are virtually unusable due to the glare thrown up from the white bonnet.  I don't know if Scotts90 ha any glare reducing facility, but please be very careful about mounting lights on your roof rack.

Mike

[mmgemini]

Nobody read Construction and Use ?

[Chicken Drumstick]

13 hours ago, ianmayco68 said:

Hi all , looking for some input before I go spending my money , as some may have read my thread in Tools And Fabrication I'm building my own roof rack and I can't make up my mind on what lights to fit across the front . I've got this light bar fitted at the moment from Bolt on Bits https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Light-Roof-bar-4-WIPAC-Spot-Lamps-Wiring-kit-Land-Rover-Defender-90-110-CB-Mount-/230818979518 , its ok but would like a bit more light with out going silly on the £'S front , is there a better bulb I could fit to these lights to give a brighter light ? Or buy some better one's , I not sure about LED light bars are they any good ? I've got LED head lights and I'm not to sure I like them , were as normal lights seem to light the way the LED'S only seem to light up when they have something to rebound off , perhaps it's just the head lights but I've seriously thought of changing back to the standard lights with a upgraded loom . So thought's and recommendations please gents .

cheers Ian

There are several things or questions going on here. 

 

Firstly not all LED’s are equal. I don’t know what headlights you have. But suspect they probably have a very white or blue light to them. Which may be why you aren’t getting on with them. 

There is a huge array of different types of LED that produce different tints with different CRI’s (colour rendition index). But sadly most used in the automotive world and especially aftermarket are dreadful. 

The same is true with the light bars. So you need to research and know what to look for. Although it’ll still be a bit of a gamble. There are some really good YouTube vids that show comparisons of how they look/work. Well worth checking out a few. 

Also be mindful of how much flood to throw light you want. Some are very bright but only light up a short distance. 

 

In in terms of lights. There are 3 main options. 

1. halogen. Offer high CRI and usually a warm to more orange tint as per most normal car headlights. They also consume the highest amp draw and will produce lots of heat and the lowest lumen output. But are simple and easy to setup and work and usually cheap to buy. 

2. HID. These consume less power and produce less heat. And if you pick the right Kelvin rating (4300k) offer a really nice natural tint and good CRI. They do require external ballasts and when activated from cold will have a few seconds delay before they are up to full power. But they generally offer the highest lumen outputs. They can be expensive to buy but you can retro HID bulbs cheaply to many halogen housings. 

3. LED. Generally consume the lowest amp draw and the least heat output. Although all heat is behind the LED not in front as per the others. Pricey vary massively. Poor tint and CRI are the main current issues and a wide variance in lumen outputs. Some way lower than halogen and some rivalling HID. Lots of choice from single LED lamps to multi LED lamps and light bars. Expensive ones may not perform better than cheap ones. But overall durability may be questionable longer terms for some of the budget end. 

 

 

Personally I do not like roof mounted lights. The glare off the bonnet is totally unacceptable and potentially dangerous as it makes it hard to see out clearly. If the lights are mounted far enough back such as on a roll hoop on a pick up, the. The roof may create a big enough shadow to avoid this issue. Roof mounted lights are also vulnerable to trees and branches. 

Some info for LED retro fits:

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/50238

 

[Bowie69]

Clearly not, lightbars and roofrack mounted lamps are off-road use only.

.... and technically, you are also supposed to have an even number of lamps at the front, so a small lightbar fitted to a nudge bar is also illegal on the road.

[Chicken Drumstick]

20 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

Clearly not, lightbars and roofrack mounted lamps are off-road use only.

.... and technically, you are also supposed to have an even number of lamps at the front, so a small lightbar fitted to a nudge bar is also illegal on the road.

Doing 73mph on the motorway is also illegal.

[Bowie69]

Maybe, but blinding an oncoming driver is probably a more serious issue...

That previous was in response to Mike BTW, not you.

[elbekko]

2 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

.... and technically, you are also supposed to have an even number of lamps at the front, so a small lightbar fitted to a nudge bar is also illegal on the road.

Couldn't you argue the LEDs in the lightbar are individual lights? They're usually an even number, certainly is the case on mine.

[Bowie69]

1 minute ago, elbekko said:

Couldn't you argue the LEDs in the lightbar are individual lights? They're usually an even number, certainly is the case on mine.

 

Oh, and no more than 6 lamps

[Chicken Drumstick]

6 minutes ago, elbekko said:

Couldn't you argue the LEDs in the lightbar are individual lights? They're usually an even number, certainly is the case on mine.

I suspect this is a grey area and isn’t currently defined in law or established in case law. However I suspect it will be single light unit. Rather than Counting individual LED emitters. 

Although if that in turn would make a single Vehcile light bar unacceptable or not remains to be seen.

 

H4 bulbs have two filliments and aren’t counted as 2 lights.

And with LEDs some of them are made up of more than dye. So counting them individually simply wouldn’t  be practical.

 

 

[ianmayco68]

Thank you all for the input, I do only want them for off road as I live in a rural area so they help a lot sometimes when out and about at night , but the main reason is if for some reason I need to get out of a venue when I’m night fishing . Cheers Chicken Drumstick lots of info there to digest will need to read it a few times to let it sink in and will have a read of that web site . 

Cheers Ian 

[FridgeFreezer]

I've found the most useful lights off-road at night are the ones pointing out the back & sides as you can't see bugger all to manoeuvre in the dark, and having a million candles on the front isn't getting you anywhere other than making it even harder to see what's outside of the insanely bright zone.

Perv's bowler works really well at night as he has lights dotted round the side/back like Close Encounters but it makes recovery etc. soooo much easier.

The point about LED lights & colour rendition is bang on, unfortunately these days you really can't know how good they'll be as there's more fakes than genuine. A couple of half decent incandescent bulbs in half decent housings gives you a fighting chance of throwing real full-fat photons at the problem.

The ambulance has a pair of small 12v aircraft landing lights (ex RAF, see?) and those throw out a glorious amount of really good light, but you don't wanna know how much they cost or how much spare bulbs are!

[ianmayco68]

I live by RAF Stafford will see if I can get you some  . Seriously I bet those landing lights work really well but I guess an incoming plane needs to see them so they've got to be bright . I've got a LED work light on the back put it on when reversing at night that works well  , good idea that might put some small ones on the side when I do it .

[Snagger]

I like the neatness of LED bars and the brightness versus power consumption of the high quality units is impossible to beat, but how often do you need that level of illumination for a long period?  I think John is absolutely right - a ring of mid power lights for maneuvering or working is far more useful, and they don't need to be of super high quality or efficiency as you're unlikely to be using them for extended periods.

Having LED units for auxilliary lighting s fair enough, but for main lighting I think for most of us it is folly, unless you get the really expensive type with heated lenses; they run too cool and don't clear themselves of frost or snow in winter.  That's no problem for Africa, Southern Asia, the southern US and such, but is no good for the bulk of Europe, Canada, the northern US and northern Asia.  As you are fitting a roof rack, I think the best option would be to have some small, cheap LED bard for those rear and side facing lights.  For the front, I'd go for a mid-range light bar, but for the head lights and road legal spots on the front of the vehicle, I'd stick to halogen for simplicity, legality and cold weather practicality.

I have the round Hellas on my 109's rack, much like on the Camel Trophy 110s.  Road legality aside, they're only any use for low speed off road work where elevated lighting can fill the shadows cast by small ridges and crests but where travel is slow enough that bonnet glare isn't a worry - even with a black bonnet it's bad.  A light bar may give better directionality than halogen lamps, and fitting the bar under the rack and adding a horizontal plate  to the bottom edge of the light bar to shield the bonnet would be far easier, smaller and neater than trying to fit some sort of shrouds to conventional lamps.

[mmgemini]

On 5/17/2018 at 10:08 AM, Chicken Drumstick said:

Doing 73mph on the motorway is also illegal.

When is that possible ? LOL

 

[Scotts90]

Re my lightbar. It's individually switched, the pic is on my driveway (farm road end). The bonnet glare is due to then pic from inside the cab. No issues when being used off-road.

Every time these questions are raised the C&U regs are touted...pretty sure there will be more serious contraventions done to land rovers than a set of lights.

[ianmayco68]

Bowers auto electrics is on my way home think I’ll pop in there and see what they’ve got LED bar wise they did have some for £100 , the one thing I have noticed with some of these LED light bars is that they are made up of 2 types of light spot and flood , I presume that flood will be better for a light bar ?

[Scotts90]

My van has a 24” eBay £50 Chinese special with the flood/spot combo lenses. It’s been on 3yrs and still works perfectly. The van used to sport a pair of Hella Rallye 3000s too which were great but not the same spread as the lightbar

[ianmayco68]

Cheers Scott , I just worry about Chinese made things they sometimes have a problem with catching fire and burning everything to a crisp . It comes from a Chinese made go-pro camera the stepson brought of ebay , plugged it in to charge it and it melted and knackered the wall socket up .

[FridgeFreezer]

I wouldn't buy anything mains-powered or containing a lithium battery from China, I like my house not-on-fire.

Anyway, as long as you fuse the feed you're good.

[ianmayco68]

Yes true but there’s always that small doubt in the back of your mind when the words “ made in China “ are on it 

[Snagger]

2 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

I wouldn't buy anything mains-powered or containing a lithium battery from China, I like my house not-on-fire.

Anyway, as long as you fuse the feed you're good.

Fuel burning car heaters, too.  There is a facebook group for people with faulty or incomplete Chinese Planar and Eberspacher knock-offs who are full of pride at their intelligence for buying such a cheap copy but don't comprehend the connection to the item's faults...

[FridgeFreezer]

7 hours ago, Snagger said:

Fuel burning car heaters, too.  There is a facebook group for people with faulty or incomplete Chinese Planar and Eberspacher knock-offs who are full of pride at their intelligence for buying such a cheap copy but don't comprehend the connection to the item's faults...

Oh god no, I've seen those, £150 for a fake Eberspacher, I couldn't sleep with one of those fitted in the car just wondering if I'd wake up dead and on fire!