Blanco Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 During my recent trip back from France with a heavily loaded trailer, I did once select low range to manoeuver the trailer but it just carried on bleeping at me, and didn't change. It sounds daft but I've only ever had mechanically operated t-boxes before and I never gave a thought to testing the operation of it when I bought it, but it seems likely it never has worked in my ownership. Having read the handbook and looked through Rave and spent a little time looking at it this weekend to see what's what. I have found that putting Fuse 11 in doesn't seem to achieve neutral, but brings up the message as if. Connectors all seem clean and dry. ECU in my case AMR 6459 opened up and there is no sign of fried components. Motor removed and answers to + or - 12v seemingly OK, replaced Reading round the old threads the favourite culprit seems to be the ECU, but it bothers me that neutral doesn't seem to work, is that neutral function through the ECU or does it over-ride it does anyone know? I am presuming that even with the selector in 'P' putting the transfer box in neutral would enable the car to roll? Any thoughts appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwakers Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 sounds to me like the mechanism has seized. can you take the motor off and move it manually? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 If you take off the motor, you can try moving the mechanism manually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanco Posted May 21, 2018 Author Share Posted May 21, 2018 I'll give it a go, ....... hopefully the rain will ease off shortly, must get on and find a proper lift rather than keep crawling under! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanco Posted May 21, 2018 Author Share Posted May 21, 2018 Seems to be at the end of its travel in the cw sense, turns about 270degs acw with a 'notch' in the middle. Slightly surprised there aren't more turns, off to see if there is any more to be gleaned from Rave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 That could be enough, I doubt it needs to move all that far. According to the RAVE it's a cam system, so 270° sounds like it could be about right. To be sure you can check it on the motor, just see what the position switches say (you can find the pinout in the RAVE). If everything checks out, it'll probably be one of the transistors in the ECU that blew. They do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanco Posted May 21, 2018 Author Share Posted May 21, 2018 Just turned it the 270 degs again, and drove up the lane to check the box is fine.... It is, .... wish I'd thought of it the first time,.... Been chatting to a lad that breaks them and he says that ecu's gave trouble on the early models, but by 2000 they are pretty well sorted. ( And I opened mine and all seemed clean and bright, ... no guarantee, but... ) My next effort will probably be a 2nd hand motor, trouble is there aren't that many in the breakers hereabouts, (too old) it'll like as not have to come from the UK. I'll fiddle with the old one tomorrow if I get a minute, trouble is although annoying I can't really classify it as priority, motor is quick to change and will sort it or not at reasonable outlay..... TBC.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwakers Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 put up a pic of the motor. i have a borg warner shift motor here i used for testing. its not off a landrover but if its the same motor, its yours for postage... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanco Posted May 21, 2018 Author Share Posted May 21, 2018 Hey thanks for that Quakers, ... it'll have to be in the morning now but will do, ... meantime it looks a bit like this one;P38 transfer motor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwakers Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 motor looks the same. electrical connector is different though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 There's not much in them that can go wrong. You already verified the motor works, so check if the switches all work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanco Posted May 22, 2018 Author Share Posted May 22, 2018 The connector on mine mounts on a tab at the tail of the motor, the connector comes apart fairly easily, 7x 1/4inch spades (2 power, 5 switches) if the spades are the same, might still work? I'll be onto testing switches on mine later ......... TBC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwakers Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 yup its identical, but my motor has a round connector nnot a square one. im sure you could make a adaptor up with spade connctors for testing purpose. as i said its yours if you want it, if only to look at to see if its in the correct park position, ime if you have it ‘parked’ in the wrong place the ecu throws a wobbly and it wont do anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just to confirm, 270° is all that's needed to change from high to low, there is even a stop in the gear that prevents a full revolution. And yes, the neutral position is also done via the ECU. And those do fail, also on later models despite of the heat sink and possibly better electronic components. Checking the switches is a bit fiddly, and the table in Rave is confusing, using '1' for open and '0' for a closed switch... I have designed and built a replacement for the ECU, using only relays, but never got round to testing it. Filip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanco Posted May 23, 2018 Author Share Posted May 23, 2018 Thanks for the added info,.... I haven't been back to it yet.... having ordered a lift I have spent the day organising wiring to make it go. I want to be in a position to install it when it's delivered! Relays sounds like a good solution, still hoping for a simple fix though when I get back on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanco Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 Still chipping away at this one....... got a little parcel in the post today with a replacement ECU for the transfer box,....... so rushed out in a fit of enthusiasm and fitted it in place, and....... ......you guessed it, zip! nothing at all. Just been reviewing the situation again (best Fagin impression), and it seems to me there is a minor detail I have hitherto overlooked. The Neutral position indicator on the 'high' side of the gate has never worked, the light goes from 'R' straight to 'D', and remains in 'D' when in neutral. ........so I have been looking up that aspect of the problem, but it seems that whilst a manual 'box has a discrete neutral switch and it's malfunction would give exactly my symtoms, the auto has no such switch. Have been looking at Rave, but its hard to take it in for long before glasing over a bit. I am beginning to wonder if the BECM isn't getting the signal that the selector is in neutral and so isn't commanding the T'box ECU?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 If it is anything like the earlier HP22 boxes (and it is very likely to be) there is a combined neutral and reverse light switch fitted to the side of the gearbox, with 4 wires coming out of it... Left hand side if I remember right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanco Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 I seem to have a 'gear position switch' (or possibly XZY?) which seems to cover the function. Confusingly rave gives pins for the 0V or earthing sequence which it declares are unused just a page or two later for the EAT ECU. I wonder do I need/is there a later version of Rave? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 XYZ switch is pretty simple: But it doesn't seem to use it: Instead using the neutral switch (X293, LH side of gearbox): You're right that it's all a bit confusing 😕 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 So yes, it uses the other switch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanco Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 I have just opened up the gear position switch this morning, so far I get.... Of the six wires, Black seems to be ground X (line 1) Grey to Black Y (line 2) Yellow to Black Z (line 3) White to Black rotating the switch until it clicks (not very scientific I know) each time I can get all the selector positions to read correctly except neutral so I am sure this is the root of my problem. although internally the switch looks perfect. I effectively have two D positions instead of D and N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanco Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 Liberally washed the inside with contact cleaner, it doesn't look like it comes apart in any reversible fashion. So I refitted it and I have the minor improvement that 1st gear now lights up brightly first time every time...... but still missing the crucial 'N'. Time to look at a replacement I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 According to the wiring diagrams, the neutral switch (X293) is only used (or present) on manual transmissions. So the description seems to be wrong/incomplete in the later manual, it is correctly described in the early editons, when the manual was also available on the V8. On an autobox the TC ECU uses the signals from the XYZ-switch. If you never get N to light up, chances are the BECM never knows the box is in N and so will never send the appropriate signal to the TC ECU. Rave only lists this as 'output', but doesn't state the voltage. To complicate matters further, the TC ECU has a different pin-out for petrol/diesel and manual/automatic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanco Posted July 20, 2018 Author Share Posted July 20, 2018 Small celebration going on now!!!!!............ just confirmed the above theory with the replacement XYZ that turned up today, N lights up like a good'un and the Low range takes about 2 or 3 seconds to engage.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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