Jump to content
disconc

MS1 Padawan looking for MS1 Jedi Master's knowledgeable help

Recommended Posts

On 15/06/2018 at 11:32 PM, disconc said:

It's me again :)

About the AFR Target table, take into consideration Bowie's comments, and the fact that I use more the low revs than the 4k+, I still wanted to have a smooth transition from idle to low/mid rpm as Quagmire says, so I tried to make an average of all this below.

What do you think about this one then for my next runs ?

5b243d85ae398_2ndtrymanualafrtarget20180616.jpg.547c95eaa0f4ec7f804facedbf241d5e.jpg

Thank you all !

Cheers

Erik.

Looks pretty good to me, I'd just change the two "15.4" values in the 1700rpm column for "14.7" instead to keep autotune pulling the cells near your idle area too lean and then giving you an oscillation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, garrycol said:

Garry, why don't you start another thread and maybe we can help, there aren't many ms3ers on here, but some ms2 users and plenty of ms1 and the basic principles have to be the same I would have thought...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Quagmire said:

Garry, why don't you start another thread and maybe we can help, there aren't many ms3ers on here, but some ms2 users and plenty of ms1 and the basic principles have to be the same I would have thought...

What he said - and if possible, trade the MS3 for an MS1 as it's massively over-complicated for a Rover. Hell, it's massively over-complicated for an F1 car.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Quagmire said:

Garry, why don't you start another thread and maybe we can help, there aren't many ms3ers on here, but some ms2 users and plenty of ms1 and the basic principles have to be the same I would have thought...

This post was supposed to go in straight after the post quoted but for some reason it did not go in - guess I forgot to hit submit but was saved.

 

Thanks - maybe later.  I have been on the "approved forum" for a long while and with the exception of a couple of people I was amazed at the lack of assistance and the poor documentation.  I stopped the project last year to concentrate on other things and the vehicle now just sits on the front lawn.  If I am inclined I might come back to it later in the year but not at the moment.

If I had my time again I would have just got a plug and play, self learning ECU rather than the ancient piece of junk that is MS.  Might be OK if there was local support but there is nothing.

 

Thanks

 

Garry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, garrycol said:

If I had my time again I would have just got a plug and play, self learning ECU rather than the ancient piece of junk that is MS.  Might be OK if there was local support but there is nothing.

I'm curious as to what a plug & play self-learning ECU is?

MS can be very plug & play, with a bit of prep you can go from Rover to MS+EDIS in an evening.

You're complaining your abacus is hard to use because you bought a supercomputer.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi guys,

thanks for the latest feedback re my maps.

Can't wait for the weekend to load the latest spark map above and try out to tune the VE table with it and the latest AFR target above too (FF, will try not to forget to save msq before each change and record some logs...)

Hopefully, if the family is not too much after me, I could do a bit of driving and tuning...

Garry, I am sorry to read your posts above. The MS grown ups here know what they are talking about, and for our old generation (basic ?) engine, all the more fitted in our tanks (not race track cars), the MS1 is all the basic stuff that we need. Sincerely, at the beginning, I did the MS spark only with EDIS and kept my lucas ECU (while the grown ups here were telling to do it all straight away)... and I know I am not alone, I finally did it the full way as invited to at the beginning ... as the LUCAS was finally driving me crazy (I have posted everywhere in the world for weird warm engine stalling issues with the LUCAS to no avail).

Hopefully, on the first 3 runs with full MS, with a dreadful spark map and not tuned yet VE table, it seems that the problem has disappeared :D ... bit early to shout out victory, but crossing fingers... believe the problem was in the MAF... and this expensive part is now forgotten !!!

I now have to tune my VE table with the "popular" spark table above, and after that, dial in the AE/PWM/ASE/WUE to make it an everyday friendly vehicle, but already, on the not so good untuned tables... IT DRIVES !!!!!

For the spark only, I did my wiring with caution, and it started and worked first time no worries.

For the full MS, well adding fuel to spark, did the same, and started on first crank... ok, then stalled because of the tune not good yet, but with a few seconds of throttle, it starts when cold and when warm, it starts on the first crank !!!

So with MS1 and the help from the knowledgeable peeps in this forum, honestly, it CAN be done... then comes the tuning... but I believe tuning any kind of ECU requires fiddling settings and knowledge !!!

Cheers

Erik.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, disconc said:

but I believe tuning any kind of ECU requires fiddling settings and knowledge !!!

This^ just requires a little reading. Congrats on a successful install, by the way. 

15 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

I'm curious as to what a plug & play self-learning ECU is?

I think he means a stock ECU ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No - many "modern" aftermarket fuel injection systems have a self tuning ECU as part of the system - yes you can change things if you want but the ECU has as part of its program to constantly tune.  Some of the Holly products do this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doesn't MS3 do that? I thought I read it did...

MS1 + Tunerstudio does that, just you have a laptop plugged in, that may be older-tech, but it certainly works, and works well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK so finally, here we go, this is a slightly old version of a spark advance table that I currently use, so this was a sort of work in progress, for one thing I think I reined the advance in the idle cells back a degree or two:

 

5b2b6f43415a4_ScreenShot2018-06-21at10_25_53.jpg.6136b0bc183f05793d20c6642e336661.jpg

 

I have the idle valve set to warm up only, I do NOT use it for closed loop idle control. There are so many variables that it is extremely difficult to get it to work without oscillating, maybe I am just unlucky, too perfectionist or what, I don't know :)

To explain how this works....

  • Idle is normally in the boxes 40-45 kpa, and 800-1000 rpm
  • In these boxes, I set an advance that gives me a nice smooth idle, AFR is around 13.5-13.8 or so, RV8s like this.
  • If you start adding a load at idle to the engine, the rpm will dip, this will shove the ECU into the 5-800 rpm territory, where there is a higher advance figure
  • This greater advance pulls the idle back closer to where it should be
  • Also... the higher advance in boxes 20-35 kpa and 500-1000 rpm helps to being the idle back to something sensible after a dip.

I suppose you have to think of it like the bottom corner is where you don't want your to be, by using greater spark advance, and keeping your normal idle speed in a 'hollow' in the spark map, the idle will want to stay where you put it.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, garrycol said:

No - many "modern" aftermarket fuel injection systems have a self tuning ECU as part of the system - yes you can change things if you want but the ECU has as part of its program to constantly tune.  Some of the Holly products do this.

Most of the megasquirt range have closed loop fuelling as part of the system - the ECU reads the input from the O2 sensor and adjusts the mixture to suit. Likewise Idle speed. MS3 supports long term fuel trims - so it will adjust the map (to a certain extent) over time. 

Some of the other systems (eg. Adaptronic) will permanently adjust spark tables as well (advanding the cells in the map to the point of knock), based on feedback from the knock sensor - however this is highly experimental as if you have a bad knock sensor it's easy to blow your engine up. 

The main thing with every engine management system is that you are going to have to do a certain amount of reading and pre-configuration to get it to work in the first place. You can buy a plug and play system, but then you are just paying someone else to do this in a workshop/lab for you before you get it...

MS3 really isn't that much more complex to set up compared to MS2 (I have an MS3 on another vehicle) - you have more options, but the basics are pretty much the same - stuff you aren't using can just be disabled / ignored. If you were to post an MSQ map up with some details on what's not working I'm sure you could get help...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, =jon= said:

MS3 supports long term fuel trims - so it will adjust the map (to a certain extent) over time. 

Thanks, I thought I had read this somewhere, this is essentially self-learning, when you open up the software you will be able to incorporate the fuel trims into the main VE table

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Adaptronic will also do similar - it will do the equivalent of VEAL tuning in hardware and update the fuel map as you drive around - but you will still need to supply it with a base map to start with - very similar to MS + Tunerstudio but without the laptop.

If you ever look at the workings of a factory ECU, they are probably 100x more complex than a setup such as MS3 - I had the interface software for my old Subaru, which was a 10 year old model so hardly the latest tech. IIRC that had something like 250 tables in it, many of which are 3 axis not 2 axis, and the whole setup is different - it's not just RPM vs MAP to give VE, there's plenty of nested lookups with boost, VE, throttle positions, VVT settings etc etc... Whole different world!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read somewhere that the ECU for the LS engines use more code just to stabilise engine speed when the air-con is switched on than the entire codebase of MS1...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

OK so finally, here we go, this is a slightly old version of a spark advance table that I currently use, so this was a sort of work in progress, for one thing I think I reined the advance in the idle cells back a degree or two:

 

5b2b6f43415a4_ScreenShot2018-06-21at10_25_53.jpg.6136b0bc183f05793d20c6642e336661.jpg

 

I have the idle valve set to warm up only, I do NOT use it for closed loop idle control. There are so many variables that it is extremely difficult to get it to work without oscillating, maybe I am just unlucky, too perfectionist or what, I don't know :)

To explain how this works....

  • Idle is normally in the boxes 40-45 kpa, and 800-1000 rpm
  • In these boxes, I set an advance that gives me a nice smooth idle, AFR is around 13.5-13.8 or so, RV8s like this.
  • If you start adding a load at idle to the engine, the rpm will dip, this will shove the ECU into the 5-800 rpm territory, where there is a higher advance figure
  • This greater advance pulls the idle back closer to where it should be
  • Also... the higher advance in boxes 20-35 kpa and 500-1000 rpm helps to being the idle back to something sensible after a dip.

I suppose you have to think of it like the bottom corner is where you don't want your to be, by using greater spark advance, and keeping your normal idle speed in a 'hollow' in the spark map, the idle will want to stay where you put it.

 

 

Thank you for this extremely useful post!

One of the difficulties for new users of MS, is understanding what people write on forums, let alone remembering what all the acronyms stand for and then sometimes, tables are produced without a label on the axes, or sometimes without a title on the table. This can make it a bit of a trial for someone such as myself, who is trying to understand what goes where, etc.

I must say, however, that this thread with the helpful and well-wriiten responses, has been one of the most useful threads I have read and I have saved the address in my MS installation notes.

Thank you everyone!

 

Cheers Charlie

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

OK so finally, here we go, this is a slightly old version of a spark advance table that I currently use, so this was a sort of work in progress, for one thing I think I reined the advance in the idle cells back a degree or two:

 

5b2b6f43415a4_ScreenShot2018-06-21at10_25_53.jpg.6136b0bc183f05793d20c6642e336661.jpg

 

I have the idle valve set to warm up only, I do NOT use it for closed loop idle control. There are so many variables that it is extremely difficult to get it to work without oscillating, maybe I am just unlucky, too perfectionist or what, I don't know :)

To explain how this works....

  • Idle is normally in the boxes 40-45 kpa, and 800-1000 rpm
  • In these boxes, I set an advance that gives me a nice smooth idle, AFR is around 13.5-13.8 or so, RV8s like this.
  • If you start adding a load at idle to the engine, the rpm will dip, this will shove the ECU into the 5-800 rpm territory, where there is a higher advance figure
  • This greater advance pulls the idle back closer to where it should be
  • Also... the higher advance in boxes 20-35 kpa and 500-1000 rpm helps to being the idle back to something sensible after a dip.

I suppose you have to think of it like the bottom corner is where you don't want your to be, by using greater spark advance, and keeping your normal idle speed in a 'hollow' in the spark map, the idle will want to stay where you put it.

 

 

Bowie thank you SOOO much for your post and spark map idea.

Autotune can take care of a base starting VE map for a good part... but for the spark map, you need to have a good starting one, and messing with it... well, you need to know what you are doing. So first hand knowledge from a grown up and working setup is good to have :)

I am sorry, my native language is not english, and I am not sure I get it right on your first sentence about :  " for one thing I think I reined the advance in the idle cells back a degree or two"

Do you mean that you current table is modified from the picture posted by reducing by 1 or 2 degrees the cells at idle ?

say 12 / 9 or 13 / 10 for example instead of 14 / 10 for the 40 kpa row at 500/800 rpm ??

Good thing is, my static idle behaves just like yours, say 40 kpa at 850/900 rpm, as is only with the base idle screw on plenum, with an AFR at about 13.5/13.7.

I get the idea how the hollow in the spark map works. Thank you for that clear explanation. I will start this way and I will start with the warm up only for the PWM as you suggest, to at least get a better starting from cold... and if the idle is not strong enough then, I might try to fiddle with closed loop... but for this weekend it will be new spark map and warm engine VE tuning for the moment.

Just one last thing Bowie : Have you found your laptop, or is this just a screenshot of the table you had on file ? ... as with the details you gave above, I am still VERY VERY interested in having a spying eye on your current msq... which would seem to be quite very close to my engine ... PLEEAASSE :rolleyes:

Thank you again for your valuable support

Cheers

Erik.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That was one I had kicking about, on my mac, but is based on my msq, the cells I meant were the idle cells, so the 10s were more like 8s, or even 6, I forget where I got to with it.

Will dig out the ancient IBM sometime soon, I promise!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can I vote Bowie for an MS-tuning guide thread as I suck at tuning :(

Bowie - How many jaffa cakes do we have to send you? ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Can I vote Bowie for an MS-tuning guide thread as I suck at tuning :(

Bowie - How many jaffa cakes do we have to send you? ;)

We could do a tuning YouTube from your ambulance or 109? Record the screen on a laptop and voice over won't be much bother, could fit nicely into a written tuning guide if Bowie is happy to write one.

Shout if you want a hand tuning, though. I kinda missing bashing keys in megatune while hurtling around the countryside. Ewshot Hill and the A33 dual carriageway are good poor man's rolling roads :ph34r:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm, I'm no expert, at all.

But I did/do read tuning guides and engine theory until I understand the core principles for why something is the way it is - I don't like following instructions blindly, just not how I am made, I need to understand.

The above idle tuning just came from experimenting, and understanding the effect of timing on engine speed. The rest is just application.

I could do a few posts on tuning, sure, I think though, that if it did, there's no way I could do an A-Z, just too much, but some posts about specific areas would probably make sense.

If someone makes a request for a specific tuning area I can think about it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing that the MS guys did in the early days was "tuning days" either at a friendly workshop / dyno or someone's gaff, maybe we should all descend on Nige's place for an MS-meetup? :lol:

(and if we're really good we could even warn him we're coming :ph34r:)

Half my issue at the moment is the f***ing exhaust won't stay sealed so I have no feedback and it sounds awful. Aside from that it's knowing how brave to be with ignition advance, and trying to tune out transmission shunt and part-throttle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi everyone,

So, bit of an update after the weekend and further tuning…

1°) SPARK MAP :

Following advice from the above posts, I uploaded my new spark map and afr tables.

Cold start is still a pain : first crank = fire then stall / second crank won't start / third crank with some throttle will start, but rough as hell, keeping it running with throttle, and after a few seconds, I can leave it alone and it will idle very slow till a better temperature and its nice warm idle.

My warm idle is still good for me at about 800/850 rpm – 40 kpa – 10 °advance – 13.5/13.7 afr

After re-reading Bowie's post above about spark table hollow around idle, and also finding a post and spark map by Ancien Geek with quite high advance at low revs above idle kpa, and a very interesting post and table from Bobtail84 for a standard 3.9 with headers, see quote below :

Bobtail84 spark table suggestion for a 3.9 with headers…

… your spark map is too retarded in the 500 to 1500 rpm range. When you put your boot to it the map KPA will rise to 95ish and the spark is between 6 & 9 deg. The engine will bog down and struggle till you get the revs up. The map is like a dizzy curve and tuners have been trying to get dizzies more advanced at lower revs for... well for ever and they cant. With MS you can give it lots

Try this one instead

image.png.6f05f9e0fd963ac9a542b026b42dcadd.png

I must admit that what he says above is exactly what happens to my engine when bleeping the throttle at idle.

I chickened out to load this map as is, with so much advance in the idle and upper left corner, so loaded my scheduled map instead from the above posts, and did the following tests and modifications.

While happily idling in the 40 kpa/800 rpm cell, I engaged drive with brakes on… rpm dropped to left most column and map rose nearly one row. I then increased the advance in this new "auto in drive idle cell" to make the engine sound better.

Back to neutral : ok / engage drive : yeah, much better hold on the revs.

Now, with drive engaged, I also turned the AC on… new even more important drop in revs, and map climbed nearly a row again… so on this new in gear + AC cell, I increased advance to make it sound happier.

Then I tried to smooth the cells on their right to make a transition with the rest of the map.

It gives the map below, which provides me for now a strong idle, including when engaging gear and/or AC :D, without PWM idle valve in closed loop : YEAH !!

image.png.f2f9d1b2968f367771ca638009734226.png

Now, I am sure some grown ups could please suggest from their knowledge how to smooth a little bit more this new spark table. Please !!!

I find also, as Bobtail84 says, that increasing the advance in the cells just above idle in the 500-1000 rpm helps improve the hesitation on throttle bleep at idle… and also, first run after this new map, I have no more hesitation when starting from a stop and applying throttle… double benefits !!

From all the above… do you think it would be a good idea (yet still "safe") to load/try bobtail84's spark map above ??

I am a bit worried about the 13 deg advance at the idle cells and up to 27 above… but what he says makes sense. What do you guys think ?

2°) Tuning :

From then on, I went for a tuning run with the new afr target table, and tried to cover the map as best as I could… except for the high rpm area, as when I tried, the car suffered from a big (read near dangerous) vibration on the motorway at 120 kmh and being under full acceleration… with the 3inch lift and mud tires… scary shake :im-ok-smiley-emoticon:… I think my rear chassis side trailing arms bushes are worn out and the rear axle might be moving / wrapping, and also throwing out the propshaft UJ pinion angle, hence maybe the vibrations.

But engine wise, it drives REALLY well already :D… also, I can confirm that my warm stalling issues with the LUCAS is GONE for good… might indeed have been the F*****g AFM on its way out !!!

Here is the coverage map from TS autotune of Sunday's run (the cell change is faithfully empty as I did the screenshot after a cpu burn/tune save)

image.png.a03a5337c4ab1b5bd66a1fb4fa1839e3.png

As you can see on the attached pdf file, "ve table changes.pdf", here are my first ever VE map on top, and the latest one at the bottom, with circled in blue the cells that seem to have not been visited…

I know NIGE is good at studying that kind of map and smoothing it out… so, Nigel, please, if you are around, or some other MS grown up, could you please comment/suggest any manual mod to my current VE map, PLEASE ??

3°) Cold start : PWM IDLE VALVE, etc…

As instructed to, I have not yet fiddled with ASE/WUE, but as each time I start from cold, it requires throttle… I felt it needed extra air, so as Bowie does, I felt like why not plumb the PWM IDLE valve in and set it up as warm up only …

So this is what I did.

When engine was warm and running, I plugged in the valve (not plumbed in) to find its closed dc value by looking inside directly, which for my valve is 70.

Then I typed in the following values, but here again, I would really appreciate to get your suggestions/comments on the values to input here (BOWIE please… if you have settings from your running warm up only setup which I could try to translate to mine ???)

image.png.c58ba4a62fd8a444eee8fbf2acd753f6.png

I will really see the difference on the next cold start, but I am not too sure about the cranking dc value / idle duty at lower temp / fast idle and slow idle temps… any feedback welcome.

4°) ASE/WUE :

Considering the low rev side of my VE map might be alright, maybe I can start playing around with the ASE/WUE to improve my cold starting, as the VE map itself might not be changing that much in the cells where the ASE/WUE might read ???

May I proceed masters ;o) ?

If so, I admit I am a bit lost on which way to move the values around…

I believe, I might work on ASE first maybe, as it happens in a limited time frame from cranking, and then try the autotune feature for the WUE from cold ???

...else, what is the correct step by step way of tuning ASE/WUE, as they will have an effect on each other I believe !!!!!????

Thank you all for your attention and support

Cheers

Erik.

ve table changes.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like you are making good progress! with your initial starting issues:

8 hours ago, disconc said:

Cold start is still a pain : first crank = fire then stall / second crank won't start / third crank with some throttle will start, but rough as hell, keeping it running with throttle, and after a few seconds, I can leave it alone and it will idle very slow till a better temperature and its nice warm idle.

 

I'd suggest following this info from one of the old megasquirt manuals - it worked well for me on both my ms1 and ms2 cars (from here):

Typically, the first time someone tries to start their engine with MegaSquirt® EFI Controller, it starts after about 5 minutes of alternating various cranking pulse widths numbers to get started (on the Enrichments page), and changing the:

  • Cranking Pulse Widths:
    • The cranking pulse width at -40°F should be about 3 to 5 times the 170°F value.
    • If you over-estimate the correct values, you WILL flood the engine.
    • To begin, set the -40°F cranking pulse width to about 88% of your "upper" req_fuel value, and the 170°F cranking pulse width to about 23% of your req_fuel. Those should get you 'in the ball park' for starting.
    • Once you have the engine running, you can tune the cranking pulse widths with small changes, moving them up or down together, and check it over a few days worth of starts before deciding which direction to go next. Remember that the cranking pulse widths need to be with ~0.5 milliseconds of the optimal value at both -40ºF and 170º F.
      • You move them up and down together, but not by the same amount. You want to keep the cold cranking pulse width about 3 to 5 times the hot cranking pulse width.
      • For example, suppose your reg_fuel was 14. Then you might start with a cold cranking PW of 12.3 and a hot cranking pulse width of 4.0. Suppose you try this and see it is too rich, and your temperature when you tried it was 40°F. So you need to lean it out (after making sure the engine hadn't flooded, in which case you would have to clean the plugs). You might try reducing your cold cranking pulse width by 0.8 milliseconds, to 11.5. You don't want to also reduce you hot cranking pulse width by 0.8. You really want to reduce it by the proportional amount you reduced the cold pulse width, which would be 0.8*(4.0/12.3) = 0.26 = 0.3. So you would reduce it to 3.7. 
        This maintains a reasonable ratio between the pulse widths. You don't have to calculate it each time though, just adjust the hot number by about 1/3 of the cold number, and you should stay 'in the ballpark'. Conversely, if you had to richen the pulse widths, you might add 0.8, and 0.3, etc.
    • Note that even in a 'piggy-back' application, do not set MegaSquirt®'s cranking pulse widths to zero. This will cause unpredictable pulse widths up to 13 milliseconds. Instead, set them to 0.1 milliseconds in that application. This allows very little fuel to flow.
    • It is very easy to flood the engine, especially when cold, without realizing it, and this can confuse your start tuning quite a lot. So it's better to start with low pulse widths and work your way up in small steps (lean cranking is much easier to recover from),
    • As you get closer to optimal cranking pulse widths, you can adjust just one of the hot or cold pulse widths a bit to fix particular starting issues - for example, if you have hot start issues, warm the engine up fully (ideally by driving, not idling) then shut it off and adjust only the hot pulse width slightly to get the best starting. You can do the same with cold start, but you can only do it on 'true' cold starts, which means that: a) you have to wait for a cold day, and b) you only get one test per day (starting it and shutting it off right away still warms the combustion chamber, etc, and basing your tuning on that will throw you off).
    • If your engine doesn't respond while cranking at all, try disconnecting the serial cable to the laptop from your MegaSquirt® controller. The power supply from the laptop may interfere with your MegaSquirt® controller at times, making the engine impossible to start. If you try to datalog a cranking attempt, and the datalog is blank, or you are getting resets (secL keeps dropping back to zero before reaching 255), then you likely need to disconnect the laptop while cranking. You should be able to reconnect after the engine is started, and tune/datalog normally, without any issues.
    • Most engines are quite sensitive to the cranking pulse widths, so you may need both pulse widths to be within about 0.5 milliseconds to start well under all conditions.
    • Make sure you have power while cranking, otherwise you are starting on your prime pulse, and will go crazy trying to tune it,
    • Keep the prime pulse short, less than 4.0, and ideally around 2.0, while tuning the cranking pulse widths.
    • Make sure you are not in flood clear mode while cranking,
    • Datalog your starting attempts using TunerStudioMS, and study them carefully, you will learn a lot,
    • Don't use EGO feedback to guide you on cranking pulse widths, it won't help you at all, and may confuse you a lot. Instead, use your subjective sense of how long it takes the engine to start at any temperature (you are seeking to minimize this, obviously)
  • Afterstart Enrichment: If the engine tries to start, but dies right away, you need to adjust the after start enrichment. Generally this should be between 25-45% for 100 to 250 cycles,
  • Warmup Enrichment: If the engine starts but dies after a several seconds or minutes, then you need to adjust your warm-up enrichment. Use up to 15% greater than the defaults if that seems to help.
  • VE Table: Adjust the values at the idle kPa and rpm to get it to idle. You want to change the VE table entries while watching the engine MAP (in kPa) to try and lower the MAP as much as possible. Do this after the engine has warmed up. As you do this, the engine rpm will rise, and you may have to adjust the throttle stop on the throttle body to lower the rpm back to the desired idle speed. Once the idle VE are tuned, you will have to retune the afterstart and warmup enrichments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi there,

thanks Quagmire for this interesting reading.

Yet, I find it difficult to know if my cranking/ase/wue are too lean or too rich...

Cheers

Erik

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We use cookies to ensure you get the best experience. By using our website you agree to our Cookie Policy