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smallfry

Engine adaptor plate. What material ?

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As the title says, I will be needing to make an engine adaptor plate, but what material to  make it from ?

It will need to 11 or 12 mm thick (no thicker) and will need to have some tapped (or maybe nuts on the other side) and some countersunk holes.

So do I use mild steel, or aluminium of some sort, and if so, what grade ? My worry with alloy is the strength of and tapped threads, and that steel is heavy.

I see many adaptor plates commercially available that are alloy, but they tend to be thicker than I can use.

Thoughts please ?

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lol your asking how long a piece of string is...... for me you have some of the issues covered, you also have to consider HP/Torque (force), how different the mounting patterns are (leverage), auto or manual and how harsh and often the extreme loadings are going to be 

Based off the fact this is a 4wd site I'm guessing harsh usage so I'd look more towards the mild steel option.... if your concerned about weight cut some speed holes in it to reduce weight 

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In general aluminium is the way to go. Especially in the 10mm or better 12mm and up range.

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Once bolted up and fitted on chassis mounts surely the stress will only be rotational torque reaction so in line with the sandwich plates strongest direction. If you are worried about threads add thread inserts?

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That was always my take on it, I asked what size bolts you had to use, as clearly if they are M16 it is a little different to M10 from an ideal thread engagement point of view.

 

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My only concern would be thread engagement as with Bowie above. But other than that, I'd go ali every time. 6082 is a good grade that's strong but easily machined. 

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21 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

That was always my take on it, I asked what size bolts you had to use, as clearly if they are M16 it is a little different to M10 from an ideal thread engagement point of view.

 

Use the same bolts as either part has for it's standard fit. No need for increasing sizes.

 

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27 minutes ago, JohnnoK said:

Use the same bolts as either part has for it's standard fit. No need for increasing sizes.

 

Well indeed, but at the moment we don't know what engine /gearbox is, hence the question!

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Sorry chaps, not been able to reply owing to tech stupidity...………………….

The engine is a BMW M57 (or might be a Lexus 1UZ FE) and will be fitted to a ZF 4HP22/24 Hybrid gearbox, so nothing too exciting 

TBH I have not looked at the bolt sizes, but from memory I think they are both M12 with some M8 around the bottom of the bellhousing (engines are 20 miles away)

I don't think torsional stress with any conversion plate/casting is a particular problem, unless it is stupidly thin. Its axial stress, if that's the correct term ? Lengthways bending in other words. There is not a massive difference between the sizes, between 30 to 50mm radius at a guess.

I guess an alloy would be easier to work, but I have no idea what grade, but steel would be stronger. Or is it ?

 

 

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The ZF box will have M10 or 3/8" bolts. RV8 uses 3/8" UNC

If you're worried about thread engagement into ally, fit Helicoils or similar.

I'd also include a couple of dowels for good location of each side, then the screws can do the rest,

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On 9/11/2018 at 10:44 PM, smallfry said:

Sorry chaps, not been able to reply owing to tech stupidity...………………….

The engine is a BMW M57 (or might be a Lexus 1UZ FE) and will be fitted to a ZF 4HP22/24 Hybrid gearbox, so nothing too exciting 

TBH I have not looked at the bolt sizes, but from memory I think they are both M12 with some M8 around the bottom of the bellhousing (engines are 20 miles away)

I don't think torsional stress with any conversion plate/casting is a particular problem, unless it is stupidly thin. Its axial stress, if that's the correct term ? Lengthways bending in other words. There is not a massive difference between the sizes, between 30 to 50mm radius at a guess.

I guess an alloy would be easier to work, but I have no idea what grade, but steel would be stronger. Or is it ?

 

 

Steel is stronger of course, but not needed. Use 12mm aluminium and it will be fine.

Much more important is the accuracy of it.

When using the ZF 4HP22/24 with a powerful engine you need the biggest torque converter so it picks up drive better and the lock up clutch is bigger. Needs a bigger bellhousing (or maybe you can accomodate the extra 15mm you need for that in the adaptor plate).

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If you're going down the aluminium route, you might want to think about getting it anodized as it will harden up the material.... Or is it possible to use a nut and bolt? that would remove any worries about stripping threads.

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The Rover V8 uses 3/8 unc gearbox bolts straight into the ali block with an engagement depth of about 12mm. Don't over-think it! 

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unc is a coarser thread than standard metric, and will have more meat in the thread, that isn't to say that you can't get metric coarse threads! For the smaller sizes it was suggested that Heli coils should be considered, if you really want strong then use threaded inserts, like time-sert.

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On 11 September 2018 at 9:44 PM, smallfry said:

Sorry chaps, not been able to reply owing to tech stupidity...………………….

The engine is a BMW M57 (or might be a Lexus 1UZ FE) and will be fitted to a ZF 4HP22/24 Hybrid gearbox, so nothing too exciting 

TBH I have not looked at the bolt sizes, but from memory I think they are both M12 with some M8 around the bottom of the bellhousing (engines are 20 miles away)

I don't think torsional stress with any conversion plate/casting is a particular problem, unless it is stupidly thin. Its axial stress, if that's the correct term ? Lengthways bending in other words. There is not a massive difference between the sizes, between 30 to 50mm radius at a guess.

I guess an alloy would be easier to work, but I have no idea what grade, but steel would be stronger. Or is it ?

 

 

Hi, if you are using the M57 and ZF 4HP22/24 see :

https://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/m57-bmw-engine-to-zf-kit.html

 

Dave

 

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On 9/15/2018 at 9:30 AM, miggit said:

If you're going down the aluminium route, you might want to think about getting it anodized as it will harden up the material.... Or is it possible to use a nut and bolt? that would remove any worries about stripping threads.

Anodizing only effects the surface of the material.So more resistant to scrapes and corrosion. 

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On 9/16/2018 at 10:04 PM, landroversforever said:

Anodizing only effects the surface of the material.So more resistant to scrapes and corrosion

Obviously cut the threads before it's treated! 

 

On 9/16/2018 at 8:21 PM, ashtrans said:

Hi, if you are using the M57 and ZF 4HP22/24 see :

https://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/m57-bmw-engine-to-zf-kit.html

 

Dave

Does that mean that I could have done away with the totally useless 5L40E plastic box (made from camembert and plastic) in my L322? 

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Helicoils and anodizing are just over the top. Of course it is nice anyway..

Metric bolts are corse enough.. still you need material tickness like 12mm to have enough tread, that's all.

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