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ThreeSheds

Disco 2 or Disco 3 ..... Discuss!

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21 hours ago, BogMonster said:

Interesting digression of views, and an interesting read :)

BogMonster I have to say I haven’t driven the manual. My comments come from the perspective of moving from being a manual or nothing for off road person to driving an auto 110 and my D3. All I can say is that I’m a convert. Try making a gear change in sand with a manual, its doable but, well momentum is every thing

Are you describing indecisiveness whilst off road? If so so that’s entirely possible, its generated by the selected programme and the surface conditions. Its cured by locking down the gearbox for the speed, revs and comfort that you’re happy with.
If its happening on road that's quite a different issue.

Its easy to plough them in, I’d like to say it doesn’t happen to me any more but I can’t fib.

I’ve driven manual for so long that when its been a while between trips I forget and drive the “old way”. After some shovel work I’m reminded to check that I have the appropriate tyre pressure for the conditions and “DSC off, DSC off, DSC off” picture head slapping here :0) DSC re-sets with every start up and every Terrain Response change to setting selected. So the golden rule is make sure the DSC is off every time you go to move.Its a show stopper. Also when severely bogged rock climbing mode is your friend. Not too sure about that photo cos I don’t do mud :0)

Buried past the axles you can easily self recover with max trax and minimal digging

As was mentioned earlier its so comfortable its really easy to forget just how fast you’re going

Edited by Magnet6x6

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On 9/14/2018 at 1:57 PM, Chicken Drumstick said:

 Many diesel manuals don't have the rear seats

CD, I need to eat some humble pie.
On first pass I misread your comment and made a mistake in my answer when I wrote "I think you'll find that's only the commercial variants"
At the time I thought you meant they were missing the second row.
As you correctly say some D3s don't have a third road.

Sorry for any confusion

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3 hours ago, Magnet6x6 said:

BogMonster I have to say I haven’t driven the manual. My comments come from the perspective of moving from being a manual or nothing for off road person to driving an auto 110 and my D3. All I can say is that I’m a convert. Try making a gear change in sand with a manual, its doable but, well momentum is every thing

Are you describing indecisiveness whilst off road? If so so that’s entirely possible, its generated by the selected programme and the surface conditions. Its cured by locking down the gearbox for the speed, revs and comfort that you’re happy with.
If its happening on road that's quite a different issue.

Its easy to plough them in, I’d like to say it doesn’t happen to me any more but I can’t fib.

I’ve driven manual for so long that when its been a while between trips I forget and drive the “old way”. After some shovel work I’m reminded to check that I have the appropriate tyre pressure for the conditions and “DSC off, DSC off, DSC off” picture head slapping here :0) DSC re-sets with every start up and every Terrain Response change to setting selected. So the golden rule is make sure the DSC is off every time you go to move.Its a show stopper. Also when severely bogged rock climbing mode is your friend. Not too sure about that photo cos I don’t do mud :0)

Buried past the axles you can easily self recover with max trax and minimal digging

As was mentioned earlier its so comfortable its really easy to forget just how fast you’re going

I was meaning on road for the D4. I haven't done any meaningful off-road work with D3/D4 here, I don't have one, and they suffer from being far too heavy, having small tyres and too many fragile bits underneath that tend to get left behind plus plastic bumpers which suffer the same fate. Most terrain is soft peat so you need a ... robust ... attitude to conservation of momentum at times.

The preferred vehicle of choice for off road use here looks more like this, my two:

DSCF5249.thumb.JPG.20b4a60446525cea69e23203821dde64.JPG

DSCF4397.thumb.JPG.f9cc06daf18764727f8f55d8a7990da6.JPG

I had a good chuckle at your previous post about off road experience, very different to here but sounds like fun :)

 

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3 hours ago, BogMonster said:

I was meaning on road for the D4
........
I had a good chuckle at your previous post about off road experience, very different to here but sounds like fun :)

 

I too had to smile when I looked up your lat & long, we really are at polar opposites.
A different colour sand in your neck of the woods I believe. I bet that terrain keeps you on your toes.

As you say, it has indeed been fun with a scattering of compulsory “half a crown and sixpence moments thrown” in.
The down side is I'm going to have to relearn all the off road stuff when I get home 'cos like I said, "I don't do mud"

Wheels wise, up to a certain model year you can change the rims out for smaller ones.
As you know the definer for wheel size is the physical space the brakes take up. 
Apparently the only difference between certain model years is the size of the carriers which I believe are interchangeable. I’m not sure about the 4s

So far I’ve stuck with the original 19” which have defied logic and were in place when those desert sand shots were taken. But there’s a lot less protection than one would hope for. Happily I snagged a set of 18” as a second set but I’ve yet to fit them.

Get your dad to check out the UK site I posted. They have some seriously clued up chaps on there and its where I get all my info from. 
Without their support I wouldn’t have been brave enough to buy the car. Also point him at AULRO for even more D3 & 4 goodness.

Anyhoo, when I had those gearbox symptoms it was down to a corroded wire in the loom in RHS footwell. When the sunroof drains block water ends up inside the car by the sill and there’s a particular wire connection that suffers causing all sorts of problems, which manifest themselves in a myriad of ways. Its a very easy fix.

However similar issues can and seem to be far more commonly attributed to auto gearboxes of a certain mileage.
Never mind all that “sealed for life nonsense”. It might be time for a gearbox oil & filter change.
There’s a surprisingly effective temporary fix using a packet of Dr. Tranni, (and just to be clear that’s an oil additive that I'm advocating and not a life style change)  but the permanent fix is generally an oil change. Check it out.

Of course it might not be anything to do with either, such is the way of arm chair diagnostic sessions

Those are a fine pair of ladies that you’re squiring there. I can see why it would be hard to put them to one side, even for younger model with a "fuller" figure.

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On 9/13/2018 at 12:50 AM, garrycol said:

but you only need to watch Youtube to find out how to do these and many other maintenance work on these cars.

Once you start working on these cars the mystic soon disappears.

Been watching youTube vids and you are right - it appears that a slightly different mindset is needed, but it appears that people have worked out ways around the worst of the "designed for easy assembly rather than easy maintenance" aspects of the car.

By the way, the best example I found of the above mindset is the "sealed for life" autobox! What penny-pinching accountant came up with that idea? I guess it's ok if your vehicle "life" is only meant to extend through the initial buyer's ownership... (sorry if there are now any offended accountants out there, I haven't forgotten that an engineer put the design together, but I bet he cried himself to sleep after agreeing to that! ) But even with the sealed box there is a way around the problem :)

So currently my thinking is to keep the rusting D2 on the road as long as  I can, as both a spare car and for RTV trials if I get time. Then look at getting a D4 (since they seem to be a lot better than the D3) if possible within my budget.

Talking of D4s, there appear to be some commercials around - since I only want two seats, is it possible to get one of these and then tax it as a two seat private car?  (is that still called PLG?) ??

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this discussion so far... You really are helping me enormously!

 

Rog

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4 hours ago, ThreeSheds said:

Been watching youTube vids and you are right - it appears that a slightly different mindset is needed, but it appears that people have worked out ways around the worst of the "designed for easy assembly rather than easy maintenance" aspects of the car.

By the way, the best example I found of the above mindset is the "sealed for life" autobox! What penny-pinching accountant came up with that idea? I guess it's ok if your vehicle "life" is only meant to extend through the initial buyer's ownership... (sorry if there are now any offended accountants out there, I haven't forgotten that an engineer put the design together, but I bet he cried himself to sleep after agreeing to that! ) But even with the sealed box there is a way around the problem :)

So currently my thinking is to keep the rusting D2 on the road as long as  I can, as both a spare car and for RTV trials if I get time. Then look at getting a D4 (since they seem to be a lot better than the D3) if possible within my budget.

Talking of D4s, there appear to be some commercials around - since I only want two seats, is it possible to get one of these and then tax it as a two seat private car?  (is that still called PLG?) ??

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this discussion so far... You really are helping me enormously!

 

Rog

There are plenty of 2 seat commercials running round with a full compliment of seats too. Often done to get around the tax costs.

With the commercial you also get loads of storage under the front floor area where the middle row seats would be. A friend uses a D3 for work and has all sorts of stuff stashed under there and the flat floor is good for sleeping too.

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19 hours ago, ThreeSheds said:

 the best example I found of the above mindset is the "sealed for life" autobox! What penny-pinching accountant came up with that idea? I guess it's ok if your vehicle "life" is only meant to extend through the initial buyer's ownership... (sorry if there are now any offended accountants out there, I haven't forgotten that an engineer put the design together, but I bet he cried himself to sleep after agreeing to that! ) But even with the sealed box there is a way around the problem :)

That is an old wives tale - the service schedule does not mention anything about "sealed for life" - now it is a long time but not sealed for life - 10 years or 250,000km whatever is earlier but there are is a caveat about arduous use shortening the time - city driving is considered arduous use so the "approved" time is actually far less than 250,000km or 10 years for the average car - nothing about sealed for life.  It is all in the official service record document that list service types and intervals.

 

Nevertherless you point about accountants etc is quite valid as even though the LR service interval for the ZF gearbox is up to 250,000km, ZF themselves claim the service interval on their gearbox should be less than 80,000km (max) depending on use - a lot different the the LR interval.

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4 hours ago, garrycol said:

That is an old wives tale - the service schedule does not mention anything about "sealed for life

Phew - I am pleased about that :)

Hopefully it's also an old wives tale about the service schedule requiring that the body is lifted in order to remove the gearbox's sump pan? 

:D

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4 hours ago, garrycol said:

Nevertherless you point about accountants etc is quite valid as even though the LR service interval for the ZF gearbox is up to 250,000km, ZF themselves claim the service interval on their gearbox should be less than 80,000km (max) depending on use - a lot different the the LR interval.

Suspect there is also pressure from the marketing department, accountants would not really care if the consumer had to pay out another £200 for a gearbox service, but try making that palatable to a consumer.

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Actually it is an EU pollution thing where waste oil polluting the environment is a no no so to meet environmental requirements manufacturers are extending oil change requirements to minimise oil use and waste.

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4 hours ago, ThreeSheds said:

Hopefully it's also an old wives tale about the service schedule requiring that the body is lifted in order to remove the gearbox's sump pan? 

:D

Yep :D

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11 hours ago, garrycol said:

 

 

Nevertherless you point about accountants etc is quite valid as even though the LR service interval for the ZF gearbox is up to 250,000km, ZF themselves claim the service interval on their gearbox should be less than 80,000km (max) depending on use - a lot different the the LR interval.

I think you will find that ZF  revised their service intervals for these boxes well after they were out in service - and starting to give problems. Which is nothing compared to what is going on with some of their current 9 speed auto's.

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On 9/19/2018 at 4:13 AM, garrycol said:

That is an old wives tale - the service schedule does not mention anything about "sealed for life"

ah - but the Owners Handbook does! ;) :D

(well, it says 'filled' not 'sealed',  but that's just semantics ) 

image.png.c6fcf1d7beb1639d59112663b476b121.png

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There are enough enthusiasts around the country now with megaflush machines that will do a complete gearbox oil (son including the torque converter) change for you that its actually quite quick and easy. The price seems expensive initially, but about 50% of what these guys ask is actually the cost of the oil (as it isnt cheap and needs to be correct spec). Woody from the D3 forum came to do mine the other day but it was so clean we decided to leave it another 20K and do it at 85,000 miles. Key with this is to keep it preventative and not wait until there is a problem as this is too late.

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2 hours ago, ThreeSheds said:

ah - but the Owners Handbook does! ;) :D

(well, it says 'filled' not 'sealed',  but that's just semantics ) 

image.png.c6fcf1d7beb1639d59112663b476b121.png

Service Schedule below - top - right hand column

D3 Service Schedule.jpg

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8 minutes ago, garrycol said:

Service Schedule below - top - right hand column

 

:) I guess they only consider the first 'Owner' and assume that (s)he will have sold on the vehicle long before 10 years... 

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On 9/19/2018 at 12:13 PM, Ally V8 said:

I think you will find that ZF  revised their service intervals for these boxes well after they were out in service - and starting to give problems. Which is nothing compared to what is going on with some of their current 9 speed auto's.

Giving an autobox 9 speeds is like giving a woman 48 pairs of shoes. Too much time thinking about choices, not enough time moving forward :ph34r:

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This is a well timed topic for me as I'm heading back to the fold as a two year old forces sale of my Z4. Unusually the two year old is our new rescue dog but she need something I can load her in without escaping. Head says Freelander 2 but heart says D3!

In favour of the 3 over the 4 pre March 2006 reduces the road tax by £200. I know this isn't a great deal compared to running costs of fuel and maintenance but it's a lot to throw at the exchequer. 

I was tempted by another D2 but frankly my last LR was a D2 and it tanks as my worst ever vehicle in terms of electrical issues. 

Edited by Ratty43

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Well I bit the bullet, destroyed my bank account, and bought a D4.

No doubt I will soon start asking questions, it is also my plan to start a post of all the things I think are noteworthy about it...

Here it is in it's natural element:

851467018_20181110_150715(1).thumb.jpg.10eb96324a2a750f6a45f298bed53445.jpg

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On 11/30/2018 at 4:53 PM, ThreeSheds said:

Well I bit the bullet, destroyed my bank account, and bought a D4......

Congratulations, I'm super envious

Get ready for the wife to give you a hard time for not being able to wipe the "perma grin" off your face

That's a beautiful part of the country you're in right there👍

 

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1 hour ago, Ooops said:

Congratulations, I'm super envious

Get ready for the wife to give you a hard time for not being able to wipe the "perma grin" off your face

That's a beautiful part of the country you're in right there👍

 

It certainly IS amazing - and I do have a perma-grin every time I drive it :D  I also find it difficult not to tell everyone how good it is all the time...

The photo was taken on the north-west coast of Scotland a couple of weeks ago. We went stealth camping in the car (it's over six foot in the back so ample for me and partner who are not that tall ;) )..

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Posted (edited)

well, i just bought a d2 td5 auto cheap enough to do all the bits like Ashcrofts TQ upgrade, CDL fitment ,better tyres, a remap etc and i got a lovely 5 series for doing the commute. I mused a d4 but mpg, running cocst and depreciation made my soluton a no brainer plus i can tinker!

Edited by wanger

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1 hour ago, wanger said:

well, i just bought a d2 td5 auto cheap enough to do all the bits like Ashcrofts TQ upgrade, CDL fitment ,better tyres, a remap etc and i got a lovely 5 series for doing the commute. I mused a d4 but mpg, running cocst and depreciation made my soluton a no brainer plus i can tinker!

Can't argue with that! (well except for the mpg, which for me at least is better in the D4). I guess it's horse for courses. I am getting on a bit now and I wanted one nice posh car before I go... :) , but I did keep the inherited D2 as a backup :D

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53 minutes ago, ThreeSheds said:

Can't argue with that! (well except for the mpg, which for me at least is better in the D4). I guess it's horse for courses. I am getting on a bit now and I wanted one nice posh car before I go... :) , but I did keep the inherited D2 as a backup :D

What sort of MPG do you get with the D4? And the D2 if you know?

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8 hours ago, landroversforever said:

What sort of MPG do you get with the D4? And the D2 if you know?

Unfortunately I can't give any scientifically rigorous answer to this, but I reckon that it's about 28mpg for the D2 and 30mpg for the D4... 

One thing I can say is that I was a bit dismayed when I realised that the D4 tank is smaller than the D2, but as far as I am aware the range is approximately similar.

The problem with comparisons like above is that there are so many factors involved, just a few of which are:

  • Biggest factor is how I drive. Most of the time in the D4 I am showing an average of 31(ish)mpg, but on one recent trip where I was in a hurry with a sick dog on board I managed under 23mpg - and that was not being silly or illegal.
  • Both cars have BFG K02 tyres, the D4's are slightly oversized and the D2's are a bit more oversized (compared to stock), meaning the speed and mileage recorded are not comparable.
  • The D2 has a four speed auto box that locks up at an indicated 54mph in top (which is about right according to GPS, I think), whereas that D4 has an eight speed auto box that appears to lock up all over the show whenever it can. This is particularly beneficial to me since a lot of my normal mileage is (approx) 50mph cruising where the D4 is locked and doing 1200rpm, but the D2 is not locked and is doing 1800-2000rpm...
  • The D4 estimate is based on the dashboard average MPG display, which I roughly checked with tank-to-tank soon after I bought the car.
  • The D2 estimate is mainly based on gut feel and one trip on which I kept detailed records (see this post) 

Hope this helps somewhat - sorry I can't be more accurate, but that's why I put the "for me at least" caveat in the other post :D

Roger

 

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