110 suspension setup / advice on springs

[Ed Poore]

Right the Range Rover has gone so time to bring the 110 up to L322 levels of comfort . In my defence I do have L322 seats in it already!

General configuration is up front Goodwinch bumper and TDS but synthetic rope. At the back I've gone utility wagon and lost the rear bench seats. Overall the seats are slightly heavier given they're all electric, TVs, heated blah blah blah. Rear cross member is now 6mm steel C section but with no mud in it.

Now if I recall correctly I've got ####part yellow HD springs (or at least they were yellow I think) on front and rear and they're just plain too hard now (used to take 10 people shooting regularly in it, now it's just me and the dogs). Rear dampers are Koni 3 way things and to be honest for the money I've found them pretty decent so will probably stick with them and shove a pair on the front. There is no Bodge unit on anymore. 

It's fairly lightly loaded most of the time but then I guess once a month on average I load it stupid levels (you know the odd 1 tonne press and the like ).

So wishlish:

• I think the HD springs have in effect given me a roughly 1" lift (haven't taken tape measure to it) and I'd like to keep something similarish.
• The handling is actually fairly decent with the current springs
• Better ride... 
• Can cope with the odd silly load without completely losing all suspension travel.

The current springs are just way too harsh in everyday use.

Now I'm not adverse in the slightest to going air bag helpers or one of Si's anti roll bars to handle the loading and rolling aspects.

So my current thoughts are CSW springs (Td5 progressive?) and then maybe air bags and X deflex a bit later depending on how things go.

To that end does anyone have any thoughts, suggestions, recommendations or part numbers? My cursory glance of the usual online parts places seem to be awash with either Britpart or HD. I haven't given LR a call yet to see what they have.

[Eightpot]

Been using standard LR CSW springs on a 110 for a few years now - usually heavilly loaded , lots of rough terrain and fast road use - I can't imagine how they could be made much better to be honest, especially the rears.  I have just swapped out the fronts for OME medium rate and pleased with the result - a little firmer, and only a small amount of lift.

[western]

As your in Surrey, talk to Chris at Surrey offroad, near Dunsfold, I got my O.M.E springs & dampers from there years ago, springs have different load ratings, as shown on http://www.red90.ca/rovers/springinfo.html#OME

 

mine are fronts old number was 751 now 2751 & rears were 755 now 2755. 

[cackshifter]

I have a 110 csw on the TD5 style RBK101111 rear springs, installed when the Boge unit went south. They are Ok,  (were really cheap second hand) ride a little hard unladen (bilstein b6 dampers), but it improves with a wee bit of weight in. The newer than TD5 ones have RBK500300 springs which is I think slightly softer. You pays your money.......

[landroversforever]

What's the budget like? It's spendy but you could go air?

[Ed Poore]

Thanks for the comments.

Ralph - thanks for the recommendation, I'll see if I can find the time during the week to give him a call.

Ross - happy to pay for something decent (RR sale has freed up some cash) but equally I'm young(ish) and the L322 seats actually absorb a hell of a lot. Its actually more that whatever's in the boot tends to go flying now unless it's very heavily laden. So don't necessarily want to pay over the odds for the dogs danglies when for a fraction of the price a small compromise can be made. That being said the 110 has been treated to two Ultra spec pegged Ashlockers from Nige, an Ashcroft sleeved HD transfer box and half shafts in the last 12 months so not as if I'm afraid of spending a little bit of money . 

I had considered air but think I'll stick to springs. I'm not against them having had them in the L322 but for a variety of reasons not for me this time.

[Jocklandjohn]

I've a fairly heavy 110 HT with standard LR 110 CSW springs and Armstrong shocks all round, plus AirLift bags in rear for when I fill water tanks, both fuel tanks, hang bikes off the back spare wheel and two people plus camping kit. The addition of the airbags has been a great way to adjust for load/no load easily and quickly. Ride is great and predictable. Using LR original stuff means you know what you're getting (Ive had ngihtmares previously with off-brand spring that were terrifying).

[Ed Poore]

3 hours ago, Jocklandjohn said:

I've a fairly heavy 110 HT with standard LR 110 CSW springs and Armstrong shocks all round, plus AirLift bags in rear for when I fill water tanks, both fuel tanks, hang bikes off the back spare wheel and two people plus camping kit. The addition of the airbags has been a great way to adjust for load/no load easily and quickly. Ride is great and predictable. Using LR original stuff means you know what you're getting (Ive had ngihtmares previously with off-brand spring that were terrifying).

To be honest this is the way I'm leaning towards. I suspect 80% of my loads fall well within the comfortable range for CSW springs, the other 20% well they push things to silly levels so helper air bags feel like a good way to go. There's also a lot to be said for keeping things standard.

I'd say I'm one for keeping things standard but... once I start listing mods I realise how non standard mine is. At least they're all Land Rover bits and pieces!

I think I'll probably get a set of Td5 springs and run them for a while. See how they cope and then if the need arises I can always add air bags without having "wasted" money.

[Retroanaconda]

I had a 110 CSW for a short while with its original spec springs on along with the self-leveller and it rode beautifully. Far nicer than the other one which had been ‘upgraded’ with HD (i.e. non-SW specification) springs and only rode even half well with 1/2 tonne in the back.

Which is why for the rebuild I’ve gone with CSW springs and will use rear air bags to replace the function of the self-levelling strut as they are NLA.

The Td5/Tdci progressive springs are a compromise, and result in the ‘arse-up’ stance that later vehicles have.

[Ed Poore]

19 minutes ago, Retroanaconda said:

The Td5/Tdci progressive springs are a compromise, and result in the ‘arse-up’ stance that later vehicles have.

Interesting - didn't realise that.

[Ed Poore]

21 minutes ago, Retroanaconda said:

Which is why for the rebuild I’ve gone with CSW springs and will use rear air bags to replace the function of the self-levelling strut as they are NLA.

Do you have the part number for the normal ones?

[Retroanaconda]

NRC6388 and NRC7000 I believe for the self-levelled CSW springs.

[Jocklandjohn]

2 hours ago, Ed Poore said:

To be honest this is the way I'm leaning towards. I suspect 80% of my loads fall well within the comfortable range for CSW springs, the other 20% well they push things to silly levels so helper air bags feel like a good way to go. There's also a lot to be said for keeping things standard.

I'd say I'm one for keeping things standard but... once I start listing mods I realise how non standard mine is. At least they're all Land Rover bits and pieces!

I think I'll probably get a set of Td5 springs and run them for a while. See how they cope and then if the need arises I can always add air bags without having "wasted" money.

If you do go down the airbag route best take a look at my 'how to cure the inherent airbag problem' thread!   Scroll down to the bottom where the pictures are for the fix. And I can add that a couple of years later and many miles plus a lot of deep snow, a lot of rough forest tracks, and its still all intact and working as well as I'd hoped. 

 

 

[western]

lr part numbers are in the list of various springs I posted earlier.

[Ed Poore]

Just now, western said:

lr part numbers are in the list of various springs I posted earlier.

Did realise after I posted it . Priced them up via bearmach because conveniently one of the girls there gave me a discount code because of a delayed order. Four new springs and airlift from them are about the £300 mark so not too bad. Genuine at least doubles it and don't think they're built by anyone different.

Although Flat Dog are cheaper for the AirLift. 

10 minutes ago, Jocklandjohn said:

If you do go down the airbag route best take a look at my 'how to cure the inherent airbag problem' thread!   Scroll down to the bottom where the pictures are for the fix. And I can add that a couple of years later and many miles plus a lot of deep snow, a lot of rough forest tracks, and its still all intact and working as well as I'd hoped. 

 

I did come across that a couple of days ago but never finished reading it. Useful information. Do have a lathe but looks like it's not needed.

[Ed Poore]

Hmm. I think disappointed is the word of the day.

Considering these are all CSW springs (for load leveller, but not fitted) I'm surprised at the difference in height front and rear. Yes I do have a reasonably full tank of fuel and a few bits and bobs in the back but nothing significant.

Fell nice and soft but I've been hemmed in so haven't taken it for a drive yet...

[miketomcat]

I've got 110 pickup springs on the back of ours (I'm pretty sure the self levelled went south years ago). It rides ok though I prefer stiffer than softer. The height looks ok to (33" tyres).

I also have 110 pickup springs on the ibex. Your welcome to come for a ride if your down this way.

Mike

[Ed Poore]

Thanks for the offer Mike. Dad's done his back in cutting down trees and playing with the Argocat so doesn't look like Scotland's on so Seven Sisters may well be so can see the Ibex there.(incidentally if anyone is knowledgeable about Kohler 2 stokes I could bring the dinky 8 wheeler along ), it's struggling on power / ascending.

The front looks fine its just the reathat's squatting badly. But I've just taken it on the harshest proving ground known to man. A trip to Tesco with a lap of the Hogs "Broken" Back thrown in.

I've got to say it's transformed the ride on that bumpy stretch of road, previously it as skipping and bouncing over the road. You can still feel the bumps in the road but it now isn't harsh in the slightest.

I think I may order a set of air bags since it was always on the cards and see how that is. Can always swap out for some slightly stiffer springs at a later date. Or potentially a 2" lift on the rear would seat it about right.

[western]

Levelled CSW rear springs are far to soft to use on their own without the Boge unit, I hated mine once I took the Boge off, went for OME springs & dampers all round.

[Retroanaconda]

With the CSW-spec (levelled) springs you’ll need something to assist if you’re carrying a load. Either the self-leveller if you can find one or airbags as previously discussed. 

How much is in the back?

[Ed Poore]

And muppet of the month award goes to me. 

Turns out I already had non levelled CSW springs on the rear. For some reason decided to check the ones I'd taken off and there was one remaining red + green mark denoting the appropriate spring. Oops 

Put them back on and she's sitting level now and took the dogs for another test drive and handles the same. It was the yellow HD ones up front as I suspected causing most of the crashing and bouncing.

Dogs approved, although after 5 years Lyra's still bracing herself when she feels us coming around the corner off the Hogs Back. Some nasty bumps on the corner usually meant a bit of a bounce, no longer. Smooths it out nicely.

[Ed Poore]

2 hours ago, Retroanaconda said:

How much is in the back?

There was naff all. OK there's the RR seats but no rear bench seats or supporting bracketry. There was my socket set and a few tow ropes and shackles. So maybe about 20kg of stuff on top of the seats.