14Platoon Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 Hello 1992 Defender (MOD) ive purchased two vent repair panels due to rot. Does the window (windscreen) and panel have to be removed in order to fit these? anyone got any pics of repairs being carried out? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocklandjohn Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 (edited) I've just welded a plate over mine - but you dont *seem* to need to remove the windscreen. The local LR garage advised me to leave everything in, remove rusty bits, plate over, and replace the existing rubber seal between windscreen and bulkhead with paintable automotive mastic. Pictures might give you some idea of whats going on underneath. To be fair mine was probably less bad than yours. But garage said even if you have to remove a lot of the panel/vent area the windscreen wont move. I took doors off anyway just in case and kept a close eye on joints and distances in case anything shifted. Edited September 15, 2018 by Jocklandjohn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14Platoon Posted September 15, 2018 Author Share Posted September 15, 2018 Hmmm i need the whole panel to go in due to the rot. I think my windscreen panel has the ability to fold so hoping this would help the garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14Platoon Posted September 15, 2018 Author Share Posted September 15, 2018 Unfortunately I can’t find any instructables anywhere😡 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocklandjohn Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 I've not had a close look at those repair panels - but a word of warning - the original bulkhead area around the vents is a 3D structure. I was unaware of this and was intending chopping out all the stuff that looked dodgy and plating over. However I quickly realised that ANY messing with that interior (unseen) layer of metal would seriously impair the wiper refitting later. The wiper spindle boxes require accurate placement and a specific depth of material to be located within so that they protrude through properly. They are not, as I'd naaively assumed, simply shoved through one layer of steel but two with a specific distance between. It'll be obvious when you open it up - or obvious if inspecting that repair panel and it has an inner layer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 You'll need to remove the screen to do it properly. This isn't a straight forward or easy repair...first you'll need to drill out all the spot welds that hold the original pressing to the inner bulkhead strengtheners. There are spot welds all around the vent seal aperture (you'll have to delicately remove the mesh), and a few dotted about around the usual rot spots in the top corners (if they haven't rotted away). The spots welds on the top of the panel where the windscreen sits don't need to be drilled as I've found these repair panels are shorter on the top fold although this then requires a seam weld all along the top. You'll also need to remove the drip channel too. Best to tackle one side at a time to retain some shape, the wiper spindle holes can act as a datum for alignment as can the windscreen mount holes (if they haven't rusted away!) Its time consuming for sure.... Spots drilled... Youll also need to refit the bonnet hinges which are spot plug welded on, the vent flap hinges were slightly out on the ones I fitted so these had to be removed and welded back on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14Platoon Posted September 16, 2018 Author Share Posted September 16, 2018 11 hours ago, Scotts90 said: You'll need to remove the screen to do it properly. This isn't a straight forward or easy repair...first you'll need to drill out all the spot welds that hold the original pressing to the inner bulkhead strengtheners. There are spot welds all around the vent seal aperture (you'll have to delicately remove the mesh), and a few dotted about around the usual rot spots in the top corners (if they haven't rotted away). The spots welds on the top of the panel where the windscreen sits don't need to be drilled as I've found these repair panels are shorter on the top fold although this then requires a seam weld all along the top. You'll also need to remove the drip channel too. Best to tackle one side at a time to retain some shape, the wiper spindle holes can act as a datum for alignment as can the windscreen mount holes (if they haven't rusted away!) Its time consuming for sure.... Spots drilled... Youll also need to refit the bonnet hinges which are spot plug welded on, the vent flap hinges were slightly out on the ones I fitted so these had to be removed and welded back on. That’s really helpful so thanks for that. My classic garage will Be doing the welding, I’m just getting it ready to save a few quid. How easy 🙄 was the window panel to separate? Any photos of you getting the window panel off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14Platoon Posted September 16, 2018 Author Share Posted September 16, 2018 Managed to get the window panel hinges forward. I released a few forward roof bolts, lifted the roof then pushed the window forward. This should help the garage out and hopefully save me lots of money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14Platoon Posted September 18, 2018 Author Share Posted September 18, 2018 On closer inspection, I may need to move the wings also as the rot goes a little bit further 😳 How hard is wing removal 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Not hard but time consuming...unless you have the hands of a child removing the whole wing assembly is easiest Its better to work from the front back, so you’ll need to remove the grill (screws) to access the bolts that are through the grill frame. Remove frame. Depending on spec you’ll have a power steering reservoir and radiator expansion tank on one side, the washer bottle and horn on the other...unbolt these. The wiring looms for the lights are clipped along the inner wing, you can either unplug at the bulkhead or at the lights. Either way it’ll need disconnecting. Remove the wheel arches, just push the small pin through the plastic rivets to release, again from inside the wheel arch there are two large self tappers that go through to the bulkhead bracket, another bolt into the chassis bracket and towards the front another bolt just above the chassis leg. These all secure the inner wing. Underneath the vehicle there should be a wing stay going from the bulkhead floor to the lower edge of the wing, also back in the engine bay at the top some models have brackets holding the top wing section...unbolt Looking through the gap where the plastic arch was towards the bulkhead you’ll see the 4 bolts that hold the wing to the bulkhead, some have bolts, some have large self tappers...it varies. The wing actually has slots that angle downward to save removing these completely but it’s sometimes just as easy to remove them. Also if you have an aerial fitted you’ll have to disconnect. I think that’s them all...the whole assembly now needs lifted up and over the spring turret. Bit awkward but not too heavy. This was from memory but I think it covers most of it lol. You can remove the outer and top skin and leave the inner wing in situ but the bolts that hold the lot together require the manual dexterity of a contortionist and the patience of a saint blessed with small hands! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14Platoon Posted September 21, 2018 Author Share Posted September 21, 2018 On 9/18/2018 at 9:02 AM, Scotts90 said: Not hard but time consuming...unless you have the hands of a child removing the whole wing assembly is easiest Its better to work from the front back, so you’ll need to remove the grill (screws) to access the bolts that are through the grill frame. Remove frame. Depending on spec you’ll have a power steering reservoir and radiator expansion tank on one side, the washer bottle and horn on the other...unbolt these. The wiring looms for the lights are clipped along the inner wing, you can either unplug at the bulkhead or at the lights. Either way it’ll need disconnecting. Remove the wheel arches, just push the small pin through the plastic rivets to release, again from inside the wheel arch there are two large self tappers that go through to the bulkhead bracket, another bolt into the chassis bracket and towards the front another bolt just above the chassis leg. These all secure the inner wing. Underneath the vehicle there should be a wing stay going from the bulkhead floor to the lower edge of the wing, also back in the engine bay at the top some models have brackets holding the top wing section...unbolt Looking through the gap where the plastic arch was towards the bulkhead you’ll see the 4 bolts that hold the wing to the bulkhead, some have bolts, some have large self tappers...it varies. The wing actually has slots that angle downward to save removing these completely but it’s sometimes just as easy to remove them. Also if you have an aerial fitted you’ll have to disconnect. I think that’s them all...the whole assembly now needs lifted up and over the spring turret. Bit awkward but not too heavy. This was from memory but I think it covers most of it lol. You can remove the outer and top skin and leave the inner wing in situ but the bolts that hold the lot together require the manual dexterity of a contortionist and the patience of a saint blessed with small hands! Just seen this. That’s great info and I’ll be starting tomorrow 😳 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14Platoon Posted September 22, 2018 Author Share Posted September 22, 2018 Decided to take the wings off and make sure the vent repair is completed fully. Glad I did as this has revealed more rust (shocker). Ps taking the heater blower out was a nightmare due to two bolts hidden and nigh on impossible to get to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14Platoon Posted September 30, 2018 Author Share Posted September 30, 2018 Just for info windcsreen panel out by undoing front portion roof bolts and seat belt bracket bolts. Cut seal with Stanley knife, raised roof slightly by pushing up with my legs by the windscreen. When roof raised a couple of inches, push forward on window. I’m lucky as my window has folding hinges. Fold forward then undo hinges and windscreen panel out. Wings off is just by undoing series of bolts on the inner wing, inner radiator and vertical series of bolts to bulkhead, only revealed when plastic wheel arches are removed. All now stripped and ready for the body shop, fingers crossed they keep everything aligned😳 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14Platoon Posted October 5, 2018 Author Share Posted October 5, 2018 (edited) Work in progress Edited October 5, 2018 by 14Platoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paime Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 Coming along nicely! Out of interest, what are you using to treat any surface rust you're finding that isn't getting chopped out and replaced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 I'm glad to see you go to the effort of keeping the vents. Their deletion is one of my peeves on the TDCIs - I think they're an iconic part of the vehicle. When you put it all back together, the seal choices are an important factor. Many say the later foam type seal that is stuck to the back of the flap is better than the rubber type that is bonded to the bulkhead. I don't know from experience, but I can tell you that pattern rubber seals are too thick and too hard but Gen Parts seals work very well. It is also said that the later type are better at letting the water drain and dry out than the rubber type, and that future corrosion is thus reduced. It shouldn't be an issue if you carefully apply a decent primer like Buzzweld RCP and then a good coat of paint, ensuring good coverage (particularly on the lip edges, where paint naturally retreats as it dries). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 I think someone on here recently had completely the opposite experience with the vent seals, @Snagger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14Platoon Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 On 10/7/2018 at 10:01 AM, paime said: Coming along nicely! Out of interest, what are you using to treat any surface rust you're finding that isn't getting chopped out and replaced? It’s my local classic car garage doing the job, I’m hoping they’re treating it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14Platoon Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 On 10/7/2018 at 4:11 PM, Snagger said: I'm glad to see you go to the effort of keeping the vents. Their deletion is one of my peeves on the TDCIs - I think they're an iconic part of the vehicle. When you put it all back together, the seal choices are an important factor. Many say the later foam type seal that is stuck to the back of the flap is better than the rubber type that is bonded to the bulkhead. I don't know from experience, but I can tell you that pattern rubber seals are too thick and too hard but Gen Parts seals work very well. It is also said that the later type are better at letting the water drain and dry out than the rubber type, and that future corrosion is thus reduced. It shouldn't be an issue if you carefully apply a decent primer like Buzzweld RCP and then a good coat of paint, ensuring good coverage (particularly on the lip edges, where paint naturally retreats as it dries). Hmm I’ll have a think about the seals. Pretty sure it had the foam type on it originally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I put aftermarket seals on mine four years ago. I stuck them onto the bulkhead rather than the vents. They are totally watertight and I’m happy with them. I couldn’t manage without the vents. As soon as it gets hot they are very good at maintaining reasonable cabin conditions as long as you are moving, even with outside temps in the mid to high 30s. If course by then the windows are also open and the noise is deafening but other than that it’s great. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Just to clarify a badly written comment, I have no experience of the foam seals fitted to the flaps, but I learned the hard way of the difference between pattern and genuine rubber seals fitted to the bulkhead. I don't know when the change between types happened. It may have been at the end of the SIII, but I thought it was a bit later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Foam seals came in with 300ydi IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14Platoon Posted October 19, 2018 Author Share Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) Progress......now to put it all back together. Bit of an expensive job by the garage but they spent a fair bit of time on it. The paint is th3 same as the regional but obviously without the fade, hopefully this will fade/blend in time. Edited October 19, 2018 by 14Platoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 Oh very nice job! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 looks great 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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