Peter Gowler Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Hi, hope someone can help and apologies for this being a bit of a heavy first post. I have a 1986 ex-MOD Landrover 90 that when it was discharged in 1992 was fairly heavily stripped and rebuilt with a Defender 200TDI engine and a replacement body fitted. It then stayed in the same owner's hands until I bought it 7 years ago. As I'm sure happens with a lot of owners I've spent the last few years figuring out what is actually fitted to it and why it never seems to match what the manual thinks should be there. Up until now I've generally got away with quietly reading the forums and googling but I feel I've reached the point where I'm going to have to ask for some help. Where I'm stuck is the exhaust system. A while ago the rear section rusted apart and after much googling I found it was part ESR4527 (Rear Tail Pipe 300Tdi 90 97-98). So I ordered that and fitted it as it matched the rear mounting I had even though I did need to use a number of spacers to get enough gap between the body and the end of the pipe. Then the silencer section that sits in front of this this started to rust and after patching it a few times I finally got around to trying to replace it. I then noticed it had been cut between the silencer and the connector and a few inches of straight pipe welded in. It was at this point that I realised it wasn't going to be as straight forward as I hoped as I probably had one end of the exhaust system from one era and the other from a different one with a custom bit in the middle. After more googling, I believe, the front section is most likely to be NTC4426 (Front Pipe 2.5 Diesel Turbo) and NTC4221 (Intermediate Pipe 2.5 Diesel Turbo) if they will fit directly onto the 200Tdi turbo. My logic was first to just replace that whole of the back section with the Diesel Turbo variants ie. NTC1665 (Front Silencer 90 2.5 Diesel Turbo) and NTC1802 (Rear Silencer/Tailpipe 90 Turbo Diesel). Unfortunately these need different mounts and although I purchased the rear one it appears impossible to purchase the one that would hold the front silencer NTC3618. So my next option was to keep the 300Tdi Rear Tail Pipe and fit 300Tdi components in front of that. First would be the ESR4526 (Centre Silencer 300Tdi 90 97-98) which has two hangers on it. The mount on the rear looks like it will connect to the one I have but the one on the front of the silencer according to manual connects to ESR2087. Sadly it doesn't show what that connects to. So my main two questions are does anyone know what ESR2087 actually mounts to as it looks like it should be around where the gearbox mounts to the chassis and does anyone know the front sections I would need to get from the ESR4526 Centre Silencer to the 200Tdi Turbo on the engine? Any help, advice or sympathy would be gratefully received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 I use the 300tdi (ESR4527) to clear my rear mounted tank (having done away with the steel 90 underseat one). My system uses the original front pipe which comes down from the turbo and steps over the gearbox crossmember, this then bolts to the standard 200tdi centre silencer which required a tweak to fit up to the 300 rear... Centre silencer rearmost bracket... flange cut off and welded to meet 300tdi rear... and the esr4527... It was my intention to fab up a stainless item using this as a pattern....it's still on the to-do list lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon W Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 I need to look into this as have just put a td5 style tank on mine. Would a td5 rear box fit also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 reckon you need the correct full system for a 19J turbo diesel, this use bolt/rubber bush mounting whereas a 200tdi use rubber rings & pins on chassis/exhaust. see page 656 on in http://www.retroanaconda.com/landrover/parts_books/90/7_brakes_fuel_air_exhaust_cool_heat_p581-718.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Ralph is correct though, if it's "standard" then there's no reason why the OE system won't fit. Fabricating a couple of hangars if you can't find the ones you need may be an inconvenience at the moment but will mean future replacements are like for like. @Jon W, the td5 rear uses a 3bolt flange which is why I used the earlier 300tdi version as it uses a 2bolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gowler Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) Thanks all for your comments so far. To Western I think I have everything on P656, at least from memory, and the front two sections are certainly bolted in solidly which leads me to believe this as well. It's on P658, though, that I'm just missing the front bracket so you may be right and finding something to replace that is the best route. I have to be honest I don't really have any fabrication skills but would anyone have any information on the bracket NTC3618 such as where it mounts or any images of it as I've struggled to find anything on it other than the image in the parts book and I don't think they are exactly renowned for their accuracy? Edited September 17, 2018 by Peter Gowler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 NTC3618 is an obsolete part, no longer available most likely bolts to a cross member lower face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon W Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Sorry for thread hi-jack @scotts90 Currently I have a power flow stainless custom system on it from a Steve Parker downpipe 200tdi disco conversion. 300 would fit, but the Td5 has a silencer in it? Which would be good for me. The middle section isn’t standard anyway so I could have a 3 bolt flange put on it but it might end up a a bit of a cobble together. So I may put a complete 300 or Td5 system on it as can chop the front pipe and slide onto it. Then can sell the previous system rather than butcher it Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Presumably when the 200tdi was fitted, the original gearbox was retained, so the engine sits further back than in a factory installation? When working out what to use it's easier to design from back to front, just shorten the downpipe section to match up with the mid/rear. I would use ESR4527 tailpipe, ESR4526 centre, and trim the 200tdi downpipe till it matches up. You may need to move mounting around to match up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gowler Posted September 22, 2018 Author Share Posted September 22, 2018 Ok, got the older Turbo Diesel rear mount and rear part of the exhaust fitted now so that I can see where the mount on the front of it lines up. I think it may be possible, with my limited skills, to fabricate something to attach to the existing 300Tdi mount to move it a few inches to the rear but just wondering what the best material would be to use mainly from point of view of sacrificial corrosion but also from a strength and resistance to constant vibration eg. steel or aluminium etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gowler Posted October 25, 2018 Author Share Posted October 25, 2018 Once I started putting it all together I realised that the Pipe Intermediate NTC4221 on P656 didn't actually have the mounting and so most likely wasn't properly aligned. This would mean lining everything else up behind it would be difficult at best and so I've now got all of the bits to fit that mount. I'm pretty sure that ESR169 just attaches to the two leftmost bolts on the gearbox mount as shown in the attached photo so would be good if anyone can confirm this. But the main thing I want to check is if it safe to just bend back the retaining clips, undo these bolts, put the bracket mounting in and then do the bolts back up or is this unsafe to do with the gearbox in place? Thanks in advance again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 just support the gearbox to ease the weight on the mounting & bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gowler Posted October 25, 2018 Author Share Posted October 25, 2018 Ok thanks. I'll try and get my jack in as close to there as I can before I do the bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gowler Posted December 30, 2018 Author Share Posted December 30, 2018 Sure you all thought I must have finished this by now but afraid I'm still at it. I managed to get hold of the discontinued NTC3618 bracket from a 4x4 dismantler so have both of the correct rear two brackets for the turbo diesel setup and the NTC1802 rear section of the exhaust that I'm sure I got from Bearmach. Having refitted it a number of times and also replaced the mounting rubbers every time the highest point of the curve rests against the inside of the chassis. I can try and force a tiny gap and then clamp it to the next section of exhaust but after a short drive it settles against the chassis again. I struggle to believe it is designed to rest and therefore rattle against the chassis but unless the shape of the exhaust is off I'm struggling to figure out what I'm doing wrong in fitting. So does anyone have experience of this rear section and of any tips or suggestions for how to fit it? Thanks again in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gowler Posted December 30, 2018 Author Share Posted December 30, 2018 Realised after posting it would probably be fairer to post some images to illustrate this in case anyone can spot anything that looks wrong. Apologies for the darkness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Looks pretty good to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dailysleaze Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 I've had 3 aftermarket exhaust rear sections and they were all slightly different shapes, so yours could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gowler Posted December 30, 2018 Author Share Posted December 30, 2018 Am I right in thinking, though, that an exhaust should never be directly in contact with the chassis? Just checking I'm not being dumb on that. In which case I may just order a different one and cross my fingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 AFAIK it shouldn't touch the chassis at any point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gowler Posted December 30, 2018 Author Share Posted December 30, 2018 Thanks. I'll order another one from someone else and hope for a different shape then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 pattern exhausts are a pain, last one I fitted was a perfect match for the old system but the hangar brackets had been welded in the wrong place. Easy enough of you can weld and have the facilities to do so. Your system looks close but may need some bending of the hangars to grant some extra clearance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 As Scott says, try slackening the joints and tweaking the hangers, it can make a big difference. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gowler Posted December 30, 2018 Author Share Posted December 30, 2018 Unfortunately I don't have any welding skills and consequently no equipment. Is there any way of modifying the angles of the hangers on the exhaust without heating it up significantly? I'm guessing a hammer is likely to be difficult without damaging the exhaust but what are the options Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephenc Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Looks like the hanger at the rear of the middle box is to high. Dro that and the pipe should rotate away from the chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green200tdi Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 I used a 300 tdi exhaust I know it was bigger then what was on the landy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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