Thoughts and musings on the new defender

[Badger110]

1 hour ago, Happyoldgit said:

As an aside I would be interested to see how many members of this forum bought a new, as in brand new, product from Land Rover.Actual members, not friends or family.

I believe those silly enough to buy a brand new defender are those who have no idea what they are.

 

the forum defender2 is full of them 😂

[Mo Murphy]

I bought Spanish. VW quality and reliability at a reasonable price. 

All the things a Land Rover isn't  😂

Mo

[Happyoldgit]

20 minutes ago, Badger110 said:

I believe those silly enough to buy a brand new defender are those who have no idea what they are.

 

the forum defender2 is full of them 😂

Well now I bought several new Puma's, prior to that I'd always bought a range from nearly new to clunkers. In 40 years of LR ownership I think I might have an idea of what they are by now. But I won't take your comments personally 😉 nor do we encourage direct criticisms of other forums or their members ...those who remember the early days of LR4x4 will know why.

My musing was to see how many here had ever had enough confidence in JLR to actually support the company by opening their wallets to buy a new one, as producing new vehicles and supporting those products for the required time is what actually they are in the business to do.

BTW I chopped in my last 2 year old sub 10,000 miler Puma 110 XS USW as dealers seemed incapable of fixing one particular mechanical [not electronic] issue. It's replacement from another manufacturer has [touch wood] generally been reliability personified.

[Cynic-al]

I would buy a new defender if it met my needs;

• Its my work and home car in 1 so it has to be comfortable enough and perform effortlessly enough for long journeys
• Fit 2 adults, 3 kids and associated junk
• Carry a 600kg mould tool and be loadable by forklift or gantry crane
• Be able to get on and off construction sites without getting stuck
• Tow minimum 2.7 tonne
• Be economical on company car tax
• Be made in the UK, failing that the EU, failing that not China
• Just work without lots of annoying gadgets

At the moment it's an Amarok. I looked at a new 110 double cab pickup when I bought my Rodeo which I adored, but it wasn't so good at point 1 and was almost twice the price as the Rodeo, which did its duty faultlessly for 7 years. 

[Anderzander]

Perhaps a Grenadier will be an option for some of us.

[Cynic-al]

or a Bollinger 

[FridgeFreezer]

Rivian seem to be attracting a lot of interest and money towards their electric pickup, looks quite funky TBH but it'll just have the same problems as every other EV on the market - batteries still suck.

[Anderzander]

Some clever design in that Rivian.

[Tanuki]

8 hours ago, Happyoldgit said:

As an aside I would be interested to see how many members of this forum bought a new, as in brand new, product from Land Rover.Actual members, not friends or family.

Bought my 90TD5 new, for cash, in 2001. OK, it was via a dealer in Namur, Belgium. The spec I wanted [County, but without a sunroof] was not available via UK LR dealers!  Personal-imports from EU countries also had certain VAT-benefits for business-purchasers back then. I also arranged to pay in Euros - in the time between placing my order and the time-for-payment, Sterling had gained something like 2.5% against the Euro - so I was happy.

I've always bought new-cars in-full, for cash (or the bankers-draft-equivalent of the traditional briefcase-full of serially-numbered £50 notes). 

Am looking at the prospective "Defender 3.0" and also Mr. Ineos's Projekt Grenadier as a future replacement for my TD5 whrn it turns its 20 years.

Again, it'll be a cash purchase. 

[Cynic-al]

They're not supposed to take more than something like £7,000 in cash any more, something to do with laundering 

I still think if they want electric cars to take off they have to put replaceable battery packs on them. It makes the car more affordable as you don't have to buy the batteries and it extends it's life and helps with the resale value as you don't have the lease problem that people are having trying to sell second hand Nissan leafs etc. 

You pull into a service station and someone with a trolley (or a robot) comes and swaps them out. On say a smart car you have one under the front, one under the back and one under each side. On a 7 seater you might have 1 under the front, 2 under the back and 2 under each side. The service station plugs them into a charging station which is fed from on site wind and solar (a shopping centre or supermarket has the whole car park for turbines and the whole roof for solar, they could even cover the parking spaces with solar which would reduce HVAC power requirements when people get back in their cars), it manages the charge rate based on generation and only takes off the grid if stocks of charged batteries are running low. They could even use the grid to transfer energy if one station doesn't have many charged pack and another does. You pay an amount that covers the rental of the batteries plus the electricity in them. Batteries can be fitted with ID tags so that they are tracked and performance monitored so that they are taken out of service once the life isn't good enough. It just needs all the car manufacturers to agree on a pack and someone to put a lot of infrastructure in .. and a lot of raw materials for the batteries. 

Edited May 31, 2019 by Cynic-al

[martyn668]

Looks like a Mitsubishi Shogun in these pictures. Let's hope the mules still disguise the true body shape.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/land-rover-defender-spawn-apos-114000221.html

I could be you Tanuki - I bought mine new in Belgium in 2001. I thought I was you, but then I realised you got yours from Namur. I got mine in Brussels (right hand drive). Private buyer, so no VAT savings (paid VAT in the UK, not Belgium), but still saved around £6,000 on UK list price. Only had a 1 year warranty in Belgium. That was pretty much the only difference, except I got a fire extinguisher thrown in - mandatory n Belgium apparently.

[Snagger]

On 5/30/2019 at 2:02 PM, Happyoldgit said:

As an aside I would be interested to see how many members of this forum bought a new, as in brand new, product from Land Rover.Actual members, not friends or family.

I wanted to buy a 90 TDCI, but the salesman was only interested in trying to sell me an Evoque, even after I expressed my disdain for the vehicle and how I don't fit in it.  All he wanted to do regarding the Defender was to knock it.  And they wonder why they're heamorraging money...

[Snagger]

On 5/30/2019 at 3:42 PM, Happyoldgit said:

 

My musing was to see how many here had ever had enough confidence in JLR to actually support the company by opening their wallets to buy a new one, as producing new vehicles and supporting those products for the required time is what actually they are in the business to do.

In a word, "no".  In three words, "not a chance".  I would never spend that money on a vehicle so unreliable.  I bought a new Volvo in Dubai purely because I wanted to be sure the chassis and safety systems were 100%, not because I think any new car is worth the premium - I'd always prefer a young second hand vehicle with some warranty and a known history.

[Escape]

I bought my Defender (90 TD5 hardtop) new, back in 2005, with no options apart from traction control. That got me started on Land Rovers, and cars in general. Now, I do all of the work myself and wouldn't buy new again, because I can get a lot more value for money with a used car. But my Defender did serve me very well. It always seemed nicer to drive than other TD5s, which I put down to me doing the break-in myself and thus ending up with a car just right for my taste. 

At the moment, there are no new cars on the market I could see myself driving every day. I may be a dinosaur, but the technology (often mandatory) puts me off big time. Only exception is a Noble M600, only that's way out of budget.

Filip

[dailysleaze]

9 hours ago, Cynic-al said:

They're not supposed to take more than something like £7,000 in cash any more, something to do with laundering 

I still think if they want electric cars to take off they have to put replaceable battery packs on them. It makes the car more affordable as you don't have to buy the batteries and it extends it's life and helps with the resale value as you don't have the lease problem that people are having trying to sell second hand Nissan leafs etc.  

You pull into a service station and someone with a trolley (or a robot) comes and swaps them out. On say a smart car you have one under the front, one under the back and one under each side. On a 7 seater you might have 1 under the front, 2 under the back and 2 under each side. The service station plugs them into a charging station which is fed from on site wind and solar (a shopping centre or supermarket has the whole car park for turbines and the whole roof for solar, they could even cover the parking spaces with solar which would reduce HVAC power requirements when people get back in their cars), it manages the charge rate based on generation and only takes off the grid if stocks of charged batteries are running low. They could even use the grid to transfer energy if one station doesn't have many charged pack and another does. You pay an amount that covers the rental of the batteries plus the electricity in them. Batteries can be fitted with ID tags so that they are tracked and performance monitored so that they are taken out of service once the life isn't good enough. It just needs all the car manufacturers to agree on a pack and someone to put a lot of infrastructure in .. and a lot of raw materials for the batteries. 

The early Leafs had carp batteries with a massive degradation in capacity over time, which are now coming into the second hand market. The pace of innovation and increases in energy density of batteries is astounding. We're probably only 2 years away from a 400 mile range electric vehicle on a single charge. Tesla batteries are pretty good. They heat their batteries when it's cold and cool them when they're hot, so they're always at the optimum temperature to prolong their life. The batteries in the Model S are replaceable, but in the latest Model 3 they're integrated into the car, so Tesla have decided they aren't worried about having to replace them. A lot of people's preconceptions with electric vehicles are being thrown out because of the pace of innovation. 5 years ago is like the stone age. Permanently installed batteries are probably here to stay.

I'll be interested to know if they launch the new Defender with a full electric version or it'll be a hybrid and we'll have to wait.

[Gazzar]

I'd love to retrofit one of the trucks with batteries, and do have plans to do this with the kit car. No gearbox, electric motor, awesome torque. When the battery and recharge infrastructure is in place, why not?

[Cynic-al]

I know there is a new charger that will work with the new Porsche and they claim it will charge in 8 minutes. Norway have ordered electric sea planes with a 100 mile range as they do a lot of 50 mile taxi journeys between fjords apparently. 

The eu have also put a rule in place which makes it very difficult to use the tesla self driving system in Europe. 

For the time being the infrastructure isn't there, the range isn't there,  and it's all too expensive. Obviously it's a developing technology and always improving but it's not there yet for me. As a second car yes but I don't have that sort of money to spend on a second car. It also needs to be more connected to manage the charging when it's from renewables, which will come as well.  

[Anderzander]

The charge times will really need to come down for them to work in this country I think - with so much of the population only having on street parking. 

[reb78]

9 hours ago, Snagger said:

I wanted to buy a 90 TDCI, but the salesman was only interested in trying to sell me an Evoque, even after I expressed my disdain for the vehicle and how I don't fit in it.  All he wanted to do regarding the Defender was to knock it.  And they wonder why they're heamorraging money...

We had exactly the same experience with the dealer in Hertford. I just lost interest in the whole process - they werent even bothered about locating the spec we wanted  

[Badger110]

On 5/30/2019 at 12:42 PM, Happyoldgit said:

Well now I bought several new Puma's, prior to that I'd always bought a range from nearly new to clunkers. In 40 years of LR ownership I think I might have an idea of what they are by now. But I won't take your comments personally 😉 nor do we encourage direct criticisms of other forums or their members ...those who remember the early days of LR4x4 will know why.

My musing was to see how many here had ever had enough confidence in JLR to actually support the company by opening their wallets to buy a new one, as producing new vehicles and supporting those products for the required time is what actually they are in the business to do.

BTW I chopped in my last 2 year old sub 10,000 miler Puma 110 XS USW as dealers seemed incapable of fixing one particular mechanical [not electronic] issue. It's replacement from another manufacturer has [touch wood] generally been reliability personified.

 

Defender2 is a great forum, i wouldn't dream of critisising them as a forum per sae..there is an awful lot of nice people and great information to be had from there. My observations are that it does attract a certain ' person ' who has no idea what entails buying a new rust bucket from the then infamous JLR and therefore there are many many posts relating to their woes. No where else have i seen such an influx of posts relating to new ownership and the disappointment after they have received them.

 

Anyway, i am new here and don't wish to step on anyone's toes, or indeed come across as someone who likes to dish out back handed comments regarding ' other ' forums.  I also feel i should get this back on track

 

As for your good self buying new defender's in the past, may i ask why?   Nearly new for a reduced price i can see an attraction....but new from the showroom just doesn't make sense to me, especially with previous knowledge!

[Jamie_grieve]

Yet another picture of the defender replacement from JLR, I only post it as there's a piece of disguise missing from behind the front wheel revealing some interesting architecture going on there. Also of note, the bottom of the front wing stops more or less level with the top of the rim, much the same as with the defender and previous incarnations of the breed. The line seems to carry on across the door and onto the rear wing where other pictures have shown that part to be removable. I wonder if the whole sill and bottom of the door is just part of the disguise and is removable? If not,  I wonder if you can jack along the entire length of the sill? It looks to be made of more than cheese but then, it would have to be given how low to the ground it is.

I recently measured a disco 5 half shaft at 30mm so it'll snap at a similar threshold to any of the 24 spline stuff we know already, I wonder if the defender replacement which uses the same platform and suspension will have any unique parts in the drivetrain other than damping and spring rate settings?

I'm still going to moan about not one single picture released showing anything other than low profile road tyres after 1.2 million miles of testing. I wonder how much thought they gave to the handling on aggressive mud tyres or snow chains? 

[Gazzar]

Gerry likes big wheels, it's part of the style and proportion rules.

 

[Cynic-al]

Quote from martyn668 post

(It will have a wide appeal) because the lineup will include a wide variety of models, stretching from mainstream versions easier on the wallet to powerful and luxurious derivatives that will command a significant premium. 

to me that says you can have a freelander replacement or a freelander replacement with plastic trim, bigger rims and an iPhone gadets. Not robust body trim and decent tyres 

 

the photo above does make me wonder if the sill is an easily replaced plastic trim. That'd be nice as it's an easy bit to damage. Something that breaks and you clip a new one in is better than having to pull out a sill or weld a new one in. 

Edited June 1, 2019 by Cynic-al

[Happyoldgit]

😉

15 hours ago, Badger110 said:

 

Defender2 is a great forum, i wouldn't dream of critisising them as a forum per sae..there is an awful lot of nice people and great information to be had from there. My observations are that it does attract a certain ' person ' who has no idea what entails buying a new rust bucket from the then infamous JLR and therefore there are many many posts relating to their woes. No where else have i seen such an influx of posts relating to new ownership and the disappointment after they have received them.

 

Anyway, i am new here and don't wish to step on anyone's toes, or indeed come across as someone who likes to dish out back handed comments regarding ' other ' forums.  I also feel i should get this back on track

 

As for your good self buying new defender's in the past, may i ask why?   Nearly new for a reduced price i can see an attraction....but new from the showroom just doesn't make sense to me, especially with previous knowledge!

Good question, let me answer thus:

1. Because I could.
2. Because I wanted to.
3. Because having a full manufacturers warranty for 3 years means I didn't have to spend my spare time fixing them. 

As I said over the years I've had nearly new and old ones too ...but the novelty of spending a weekend having to fix a daily driver in order to get around on Monday wore off years ago

[Snagger]

21 hours ago, Cynic-al said:

Quote from martyn668 post

(It will have a wide appeal) because the lineup will include a wide variety of models, stretching from mainstream versions easier on the wallet to powerful and luxurious derivatives that will command a significant premium. 

to me that says you can have a freelander replacement or a freelander replacement with plastic trim, bigger rims and an iPhone gadets. Not robust body trim and decent tyres 

 

the photo above does make me wonder if the sill is an easily replaced plastic trim. That'd be nice as it's an easy bit to damage. Something that breaks and you clip a new one in is better than having to pull out a sill or weld a new one in. 

Plastic sill covers do nothing to protect the body.  Look at RRC and Discovery 1 sills -  all the plastic did was encourage rust.  The sills were still vulnerable to stone chipping and road spray as well as off road damage, and were not anywhere near strong enough for jacking.