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Jamie_grieve

Thoughts and musings on the new defender

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Posted (edited)

This video with the G wagon is an interesting comparison. Note that this is the G wagon with independent suspension on the front, not the G class professional which is cheaper, has more ground clearance and still has a solid axle at the front.
The last test with towing up the hill shows perfectly the difference I've been saying all along exists between traction control and diff locks. I know I'll never be able to convince those delusional types who drink the JLR coolade but it's physics, nothing else. there is no substitute for all wheels turning at the same speed finding all available traction.
Go to 19min 50seconds if you're on limited bandwidth or don't want to watch the whole thing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KL8eWzx-8o&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3Hp_AB3hJi3t0IwY-wj0EQbk6aToJSDt2oxZHl4UCGmRgHOPp_B6yXzmI

Edit: How do you post youtube links so the preview appears?

 

Edited by Jamie_grieve
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10 minutes ago, Jamie_grieve said:

The Share short URL seems to work better, past into the editor and hit enter and it should do the rest. But I've found the editor to be fickle on here and if you paste a body of text with links in (say from Notepad or another forum post), it doesn't always work.

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I've got a question or two.

 

The quoted specs for the Defender (clearance, departure/approach/breakover angles). Does anyone know what suspension setting these are based on? I assume it has a 'normal' ride height. Then an extended/raised ride height and probably a non user selectable super extended mode for when beached.

All the off road vids I've seen thus far seem to have the vehicle sitting very high. But in the above vid I think it is clear that when in this mode, the suspension just doesn't have much droop, thus lifting wheels easily, even the front wheel when going down hill. And due to riding high, which I assume is higher pressures in the air springs, the suspension also seems to resist compression, wanting to lift the entire vehicle more so?

If you look at the front of the G-Wagen, or even the Bronco in the promo vids. You can see, even with independent suspension, the wheel will go up and down. The Defender just seems a lot less willing to do this. Which on this terrain means a lot more wheel scrabble and a lot reliance on the traction control?

 

I wonder if it would go a lot better in a lower ride height, barring the fact all the angles and clearance would be worse. I just wonder if the suspension would work better (and remove the bobbing you see from the Defender when going along).

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2 hours ago, Jamie_grieve said:

This video with the G wagon is an interesting comparison. Note that this is the G wagon with independent suspension on the front, not the G class professional which is cheaper, has more ground clearance and still has a solid axle at the front.
The last test with towing up the hill shows perfectly the difference I've been saying all along exists between traction control and diff locks. I know I'll never be able to convince those delusional types who drink the JLR coolade but it's physics, nothing else. there is no substitute for all wheels turning at the same speed finding all available traction.
Go to 19min 50seconds if you're on limited bandwidth or don't want to watch the whole thing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KL8eWzx-8o&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3Hp_AB3hJi3t0IwY-wj0EQbk6aToJSDt2oxZHl4UCGmRgHOPp_B6yXzmI

Edit: How do you post youtube links so the preview appears?

 

The most impressive thing here is the presenter. I like his calm delivery, lack of YouTube Hype Screaming and his understanding and ability to simply communicate what is happening with the vehicle. He drives like he owns them/has to pay the repair bill. I don't watch many of these videos because they're normally the exact opposite of that.

 

That said, are there any comparison videos of the old Defender on those obstacles?

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19 hours ago, ThreePointFive said:

The most impressive thing here is the presenter. I like his calm delivery, lack of YouTube Hype Screaming and his understanding and ability to simply communicate what is happening with the vehicle. He drives like he owns them/has to pay the repair bill. I don't watch many of these videos because they're normally the exact opposite of that.

I have to agree about the presenter.  I also liked the pretty reasonable objectivity, the willingness to push those expensive cars that little bit past the scrape point and the way he played around at the limit.  Bearing all that in mind, his conclusions seemed about right too, at least in those dry, rutted conditions (though we don't know about tyre pressures).

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On 7/21/2020 at 9:40 AM, Jamie_grieve said:

This video with the G wagon is an interesting comparison. Note that this is the G wagon with independent suspension on the front, not the G class professional which is cheaper, has more ground clearance and still has a solid axle at the front.
The last test with towing up the hill shows perfectly the difference I've been saying all along exists between traction control and diff locks. I know I'll never be able to convince those delusional types who drink the JLR coolade but it's physics, nothing else. there is no substitute for all wheels turning at the same speed finding all available traction.

 

Absolutely right. This is true even on dry ground like that where you can lose and then regain traction without any real problem. On wet surface where wheelspin = failure, it just doesn't work well.

The traction control systems are a massive improvement on nothing (my old Ranger with no traction control and limited wheel travel is completely useless off road) and they have got a lot better over 20 years of development, but the stress through the driveline from all the bouncing around and wheel spinning must dramatically shorten the life of the drivetrain. It's why I love the ATBs I have put in my 300Tdi, there is just no scrabbly wheelspin at all.

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1 hour ago, BogMonster said:

Absolutely right. This is true even on dry ground like that where you can lose and then regain traction without any real problem. On wet surface where wheelspin = failure, it just doesn't work well.

The traction control systems are a massive improvement on nothing (my old Ranger with no traction control and limited wheel travel is completely useless off road) and they have got a lot better over 20 years of development, but the stress through the driveline from all the bouncing around and wheel spinning must dramatically shorten the life of the drivetrain. It's why I love the ATBs I have put in my 300Tdi, there is just no scrabbly wheelspin at all.

A bit off topic perhaps, but i've seen a few D4s and RRSs down your way, what happens when they go wrong i.e. how do you go about fixing them? I imagine spare parts aren't kept locally?

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Looks like a V8 is coming!

 

 

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Lucky8 have fitted 18" rims to a P400 *WITHOUT* any calliper modification
 

 

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Good job you're here to keep this thread going Naks, we'd have all forgotten about it, otherwise.

 

Mo

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6 minutes ago, Mo Murphy said:

Good job you're here to keep this thread going Naks, we'd have all forgotten about it, otherwise.

Mo

 

LOL, it's lockdown and I've got nothing better to do 😅

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6 hours ago, Naks said:

Looks like a V8 is coming!

 

 

Proof, if you ever need it, that this is as far removed from a real Defender that you can possibly get!

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3 minutes ago, paime said:

Proof, if you ever need it, that this is as far removed from a real Defender that you can possibly get!

 

You mean because the classic Defender never had a big ass V8 engine? Oh wait... 😂 

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19 minutes ago, Naks said:

 

You mean because the classic Defender never had a big ass V8 engine? Oh wait... 😂 

Because it was never built to go fast round a track!

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And the 'big ass V8' had 110bhp!

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58 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

And the 'big ass V8' had 110bhp!

Umm, this one had a few more than 110hp...

 

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Yes, but that was fully McGovern'd!

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I think that was engineering having their last hurrah - rather than McGovern’s Design ...

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Funny that, number 1 of the 150 that where built is up for sale through Land Rover classic restoration peoples for 150k its a 110.

And you can actually buy a conversion kit to convert it to one of them. LR are also selling brake and suspension upgrades individually... 

some interesting perusing on the below sites...

https://www.jaguarlandroverclassic.com/approved-vehicles/?utm_source=parts&utm_medium=header&utm_campaign=parts

https://parts.jaguarlandroverclassic.com/parts/index/brand/key/land-rover/

 

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The Nurburgring......natural home of the Land Rover Pretender.... either that or they took a wrong turn on the way to an off road site. 

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I am just utterly staggered , Still , that JLR have taken this direction with the new pretender . I think this could be the end of the Land Rover badge Heritage and very possibly the end of Land Rover as a name in the automotive marketplace .

..............the Nurburgring........... FFS 

It's a Handbag/manbag , nothing more , and scrap at 10 years old or less 

When I am fully wound up I'll get off the fence :i-m_so_happy:

Steve

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3 hours ago, Maverik said:

Funny that, number 1 of the 150 that where built is up for sale through Land Rover classic restoration peoples for 150k its a 110.

And you can actually buy a conversion kit to convert it to one of them. LR are also selling brake and suspension upgrades individually... 

some interesting perusing on the below sites...

https://www.jaguarlandroverclassic.com/approved-vehicles/?utm_source=parts&utm_medium=header&utm_campaign=parts

https://parts.jaguarlandroverclassic.com/parts/index/brand/key/land-rover/

 

FYI they’re all 1 of 150, unlike the 50th which are individually numbered. 

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41 minutes ago, landroversforever said:

FYI they’re all 1 of 150, unlike the 50th which are individually numbered. 

You mean they all have that same badge?

 

20200724_220920.jpg

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The description of the 90 on the JLR heritage website says its number 94 of 150. Not quite sure why it makes sense to name them all 1 of 150.

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26 minutes ago, paime said:

The description of the 90 on the JLR heritage website says its number 94 of 150. Not quite sure why it makes sense to name them all 1 of 150.

JLR may have a way of knowing exactly which one is which, but they’re all only labelled 1 of 150

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