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Thoughts and musings on the new defender


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Keeping that level might melt the compressor!  My first reaction to the pic was hahahahahahahahhahahahha.  The second one was to think about a strong crosswind...

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Posted (edited)

Fascinating failure of the braking or traction control system caught on camera.
Scroll to 50 minutes for the relevant part.
Classic failed hillclimb scenario where he hits the brakes to put it into reverse only the brakes don't hold it at all. You can clearly see the brake lights on as it's rolling backwards.
Click the subtitles button for a better idea of what's going on.

 

Edited by Jamie_grieve
embedding video
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6 hours ago, Jamie_grieve said:

Fascinating failure of the braking or traction control system caught on camera.
Scroll to 50 minutes for the relevant part.
Classic failed hillclimb scenario where he hits the brakes to put it into reverse only the brakes don't hold it at all. You can clearly see the brake lights on as it's rolling backwards.
Click the subtitles button for a better idea of what's going on.

 

wtaf!? brake by wire failure?

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7 hours ago, Jamie_grieve said:

Fascinating failure of the braking or traction control system caught on camera.
Scroll to 50 minutes for the relevant part.
Classic failed hillclimb scenario where he hits the brakes to put it into reverse only the brakes don't hold it at all. You can clearly see the brake lights on as it's rolling backwards.
Click the subtitles button for a better idea of what's going on.

 

Scary. Maybe brake fade from all the TC? But then it wouldn't start working again after a metre. Very strange.

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7 hours ago, Jamie_grieve said:

Fascinating failure of the braking or traction control system caught on camera.
Scroll to 50 minutes for the relevant part.
Classic failed hillclimb scenario where he hits the brakes to put it into reverse only the brakes don't hold it at all. You can clearly see the brake lights on as it's rolling backwards.
Click the subtitles button for a better idea of what's going on.

 

What a surprise Jamie, surely your axe is sharp and your grinder blunt I wish I had the time to scrutinise to excess. Not wanting to start a war  . But my point is there is haters and likers on this forum but the haters are hell bound to get the likers on board. Don't get me wrong I don't agree in the direction that landrover has taken however no vehicle is perfect landrover just happens to be the biggest target out there at the moment if it had been a true utilty vehicle these mega pages would be totally different in content.  Toyota hilux most would agree a great vehicle outstanding reliability we replaced our quarry landrover with 6 hilux vehicles 4 of which were parked up in the first 3 months with steering and wheel bearing failures due to ingress of dust / mud Toyota not accepting warranty claims as it's our fault for working them in bad conditions !!!!!! My point is we can and do have issues with all vehicles. So the new defender is not a utility vehicle 95% of owners will only be tackling a wet field or a few inches of snow and most will probably be delighted For me I hope I'm around in the next decade to see how these pages develop because by then we will definitely know enough to truly criticise regards Stephen

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Well any 4x4 can fail  whilst tackling that sort of hill...but at least with an analogue defender you can work out what the F...is going on.

That must have been scary!

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11 hours ago, Jamie_grieve said:

Fascinating failure of the braking or traction control system caught on camera.
Scroll to 50 minutes for the relevant part.
Classic failed hillclimb scenario where he hits the brakes to put it into reverse only the brakes don't hold it at all. You can clearly see the brake lights on as it's rolling backwards.
Click the subtitles button for a better idea of what's going on.

 

It's a bit hard to tell what is going on and the video is highly edited so you don't really get to see the entire thing without it being cut, slowed, split screen etc.

I'm guessing the ABS was kicking in trying to stop the wheel skidding. And he lost control?

 

I recall an issue with a Welsh hill farmer and a Td5 Defender with a similar issue when the Td5 first came out. Think it was going forwards downhill and the vehicle just wouldn't stop.

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19 hours ago, SteveG said:

🤢

fiete-2-defender-front-heck-gehocab-wohn
🤮

Terribly sorry, especially if that's your product, but seeing that image make me feel unwell for a few moments.

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6 hours ago, Stellaghost said:

What a surprise Jamie, surely your axe is sharp and your grinder blunt I wish I had the time to scrutinise to excess. Not wanting to start a war  . But my point is there is haters and likers on this forum but the haters are hell bound to get the likers on board. Don't get me wrong I don't agree in the direction that landrover has taken however no vehicle is perfect landrover just happens to be the biggest target out there at the moment if it had been a true utilty vehicle these mega pages would be totally different in content.  Toyota hilux most would agree a great vehicle outstanding reliability we replaced our quarry landrover with 6 hilux vehicles 4 of which were parked up in the first 3 months with steering and wheel bearing failures due to ingress of dust / mud Toyota not accepting warranty claims as it's our fault for working them in bad conditions !!!!!! My point is we can and do have issues with all vehicles. So the new defender is not a utility vehicle 95% of owners will only be tackling a wet field or a few inches of snow and most will probably be delighted For me I hope I'm around in the next decade to see how these pages develop because by then we will definitely know enough to truly criticise regards Stephen

I don't understand your comment even slightly. If you have ever read any of my posts you'll see they are all technical in nature, you have misunderstood my post 100%.
I was rather hoping for a discussion on what might be the cause of this.
Can you put some technical input into the discussion instead of imaginary agendas please. I've hardly contributed to this topic since the launch so I don't get the axe to grind part. A brake failure caught on camera is an interesting event in my boring little world and is hopefully of interest to others even if not to you.
I totally agree on your hilux comment, I haven't bought any since 2010 and have bought Ford Rangers instead where the LC 70 wasn't a viable option.

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3 hours ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

It's a bit hard to tell what is going on and the video is highly edited so you don't really get to see the entire thing without it being cut, slowed, split screen etc.

I'm guessing the ABS was kicking in trying to stop the wheel skidding. And he lost control?

 

I recall an issue with a Welsh hill farmer and a Td5 Defender with a similar issue when the Td5 first came out. Think it was going forwards downhill and the vehicle just wouldn't stop.

I thought he describes it ok ? 
 

He says the revs suddenly died and it stopped moving forward - so he put the brakes on and was going to reverse down when the brakes were electronically suddenly disengaged and so he started to roll down - he stayed in as much control as he could steering it backwards until he was able to put it into a rut to stop it.

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1 hour ago, Jamie_grieve said:

I don't understand your comment even slightly. If you have ever read any of my posts you'll see they are all technical in nature, you have misunderstood my post 100%.

I was out of order please accept my apologies,actually I have read quite a lot of your posts and I agree 100% they are of a very technical nature however to my way of reading a good percentage comes across as very technically critical
I was rather hoping for a discussion on what might be the cause of this.

I'm sure you will get that
Can you put some technical input into the discussion instead of imaginary agendas please.No I wont because my technical knowledge is a million years behind yours I've hardly contributed to this topic since the launch I'll give you that about 3% of posts so I don't get the axe to grind part. A brake failure caught on camera is an interesting event in my boring little world I'm quite sure your boring little world is way bigger than mine and is hopefully of interest to others even if not to you.
I totally agree on your hilux comment, I haven't bought any since 2010 and have bought Ford Rangers instead where the LC 70 wasn't a viable option. Thank you for that

 You do have a very technical mind and what you post in your own mind as technically constructive criticism I am picking it up as you having another go no malace intended. I do think you have very strong opinions which is good and bad in equal measures at times and your certainly not shy in voicing them which is better than saying nothing at all once again please accept my apologies I certainly did not mean to offend and would gladly welcome your input into any of my projects regards Stephen

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Wondering if the driver actually put the vehicle in reverse when it was stopped on the slope,brakes & & into reverse as quick as possible so there is engine braking on the reverse down the slope, hats how I was taught by one of Dave Bowyers instructors when we did a failed hillclimb during the 3 day course.

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Failing that I wonder if he rode the brakes all the way, not sure I'd have had enough composure during it but perhaps actually trying to accelerate back up the hill to slow down might have helped.

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Its hard to know how that gearbox works, but I wonder if he was trying for reverse but by the time he was able to try to get it to engage it was going so fast that it wouldnt? The fact that it was going backwards might also have prevented engaging a forward gear too! God knows why the breaks didnt seem to work at all though!

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I'm amazed that fly by wire brakes are even legal, in this day and age of "safety" obsession.  Especially given that the electric handbrake is barely controllable and whatever causes the footbrake to fail would also prevent the handbrake working.  Insane.

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3 minutes ago, deep said:

whatever causes the footbrake to fail would also prevent the handbrake working.

? I presume you mean the electronic system because normally the handbrake is a completely seperate system for that reason. 

 

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9 hours ago, deep said:

I'm amazed that fly by wire brakes are even legal, in this day and age of "safety" obsession.  Especially given that the electric handbrake is barely controllable and whatever causes the footbrake to fail would also prevent the handbrake working.  Insane.

Having driven a fifteen year old vehicle notorious for EPB issues for five years, mine has never failed and only let me know when it needs adjusting to stay in operational condidtion.

As far as I can see those with major EPB problems did so by not adjusting the shoes.

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I have actually driven one !

 

I see the old defender was maybe not a sales and profit winner, much as I loved it (and my 1985 90) things do change.

 

However, 

The change to me is that the defender COULD have been a daily Driver farmers hack etc etc the new one is really just another SUV, and IMHO not a great one.

When I saw it I thought it looked like a Skoda Yei on crack, the insides were a nice place to be, the finish fair, but the drive itself was underwhelming

The autobox was slow and clunky, the performance was poor, engine didn't seem at all sweet and didn't like revving, emissions are not great considering its performance,

.... but ....the residuals were what did it for me very quickly...

By the time you have a decent spec its mad money, and the more you add on the worse the residuals, bear in mind I buy on a PCP contract maybe 12k per year 3 years, this was horrendous money, so that alone killed it for me .

Shame

IMHO it could have been so much more, biggest mistake is calling it the New Defender, it just another SUV calling it something else would have been a better marketing bet, so not to have people compare with the outdated what was ..and as a SUV it has a market place, time will tell how stong...

Wasn't for me, and thats after I parked up the reliability issues, I know of one that is now yet again back at dealer for recall work ...

At least it does look different to the rest of clones - even as a LR enthusiast I struggle to know which is what when I see them out and about

:(

 

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5 hours ago, Gazzar said:

Just call them freelanders. Close enough.

All sorts of criticism can be levelled at them but not the silly Freelander one.  A Freelander doesn't even have a low range or proper 4WD system, let alone the size or clearance.  Confuse it with a Discovery or even consider it a replacement for the original Range Rover, sure, but a Freelander???  Good grief.

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14 hours ago, missingsid said:

Having driven a fifteen year old vehicle notorious for EPB issues for five years, mine has never failed and only let me know when it needs adjusting to stay in operational condidtion.

As far as I can see those with major EPB problems did so by not adjusting the shoes.

I thought the EPB issues with the D3 and RRS were more to do with it never being used and then when it is used it seizes on?

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