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Thoughts and musings on the new defender


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1 hour ago, deep said:

All sorts of criticism can be levelled at them but not the silly Freelander one.  A Freelander doesn't even have a low range or proper 4WD system, let alone the size or clearance.  Confuse it with a Discovery or even consider it a replacement for the original Range Rover, sure, but a Freelander???  Good grief.

Exactly. Modern flimflam. Fancy wind-up windows, seats moving all about, plastic everywhere, all look the same. 

Freelanders, the lot of them.

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On 8/28/2020 at 4:00 AM, Jamie_grieve said:

Fascinating failure of the braking or traction control system caught on camera.
Scroll to 50 minutes for the relevant part.
Classic failed hillclimb scenario where he hits the brakes to put it into reverse only the brakes don't hold it at all. You can clearly see the brake lights on as it's rolling backwards.
Click the subtitles button for a better idea of what's going on.

 

That is lethal.  This is the sort of thing that makes me hate electronics so much, and that there is no override so full pedal pressure bypasses the electronics is insane.  I’m sorry to offend any software engineers, but I don’t trust that craft.  Look at the software failures Boeing had in the 737 Max and Starliner (and the many less spectacular malfunctions I had) and my friends in Airbusses tell me theirs is no better.  Look at what happened to the first two Saab Grippens, and already F35s have crashed due to their sketchy control behaviour.  Even less critical but mass marketed products from companies with enormous resources are glitchy and unreliable, like mobile phones and tablets.  How many patches do Apple send out, especially back in the iPhone 3 and 4 days?  I don’t have a problem with electronics running things where necessary, but on critical systems they need to be in triplex, with different hardware and software on each parallel system, or need to have an easily activated manual back up.

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Even a manual handbrake would have been a help there. I cannot understand why many manufacturers are moving to electronics on that system. In my D3 there is room for a lever where the pull button is and a cable activated system would be simpler, more reliable and less expensive to manufacture! Its a no brainer!

 

In the video above, you have to wonder if they tried the handbrake.. I am sure it should still act as an emergency brake if other systems fail and unless they have changed something drastic compared to other designs it should activate shoes in the drum formed by the rear disc so shouldn’t have been overheated by excessive use of the TC system?

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Is the electronic parking brake operable if the vehicle is moving?  I can imagine it is inhibited, but I don’t know.  Americans call them E-brakes or emergency brakes, but they not designed for that, they’re just to hold the car stationary while parked (and are almost never used there as they generally rely on auto box locking pawls alone).

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The handbrake was always exactly that as well, an emergency brake, that is why it is tested to (I think) 20% efficiency at the MOT.

It is a secondary, emergency, braking system, in case of failure of the primary system.

 

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9 minutes ago, Snagger said:

Is the electronic parking brake operable if the vehicle is moving?  I can imagine it is inhibited, but I don’t know.  Americans call them E-brakes or emergency brakes, but they not designed for that, they’re just to hold the car stationary while parked (and are almost never used there as they generally rely on auto box locking pawls alone).

On the D3 it is so that it can be used as an emergency brake. Someone said once that pulling it on at speed also applies the disc brakes but that sounds a little far fetched perhaps. 

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54 minutes ago, Snagger said:

Is the electronic parking brake operable if the vehicle is moving?  I can imagine it is inhibited, but I don’t know.

On the L322 it's an emergency brake if moving. Basically sends a signal saying **** I need to stop now! After speaking to a few people who'd tried it out I chickened out but it's meant to be like hitting a brick wall and the vehicle does everything it can to stop as quickly as it can.

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The manual for the new car says the parking brake can be used in emergencies by using the switch apparently. It is applied automatically when the gearbox is put into park and released when a driving gear is selected, so I doubt the switch would get much use.

I’m not sure what type of brake it is, I think there are motors on the rear calipers so that must be it?

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Since modern brakes have two or more circuits, the chance of a failure knocking all circuits out is very remote until you add a layer of electronics.  I’m glad to hear that the hand brake is operable as an emergency feature, but I wonder how controlled it would be and how many people would have the presence of mind to operate it.  I’d still rather limit electronics’ ability to override them - even ABS makes me uncomfortable (it’s not exactly reliable on Discovery 1 and 2 or later Defenders), even though it has generally been good on my RRC.  At least they seem to fail safe.

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11 hours ago, reb78 said:

Even a manual handbrake would have been a help there. I cannot understand why many manufacturers are moving to electronics on that system. In my D3 there is room for a lever where the pull button is and a cable activated system would be simpler, more reliable and less expensive to manufacture! Its a no brainer!

 

In the video above, you have to wonder if they tried the handbrake.. I am sure it should still act as an emergency brake if other systems fail and unless they have changed something drastic compared to other designs it should activate shoes in the drum formed by the rear disc so shouldn’t have been overheated by excessive use of the TC system?

The switch for the handbrake is apparently hidden by the driver's shin.  I wonder if you'd even find it without fumbling for those lethal few seconds?  Absolute insanity.

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9 hours ago, Retroanaconda said:

The manual for the new car says the parking brake can be used in emergencies by using the switch apparently. It is applied automatically when the gearbox is put into park and released when a driving gear is selected, so I doubt the switch would get much use.

I’m not sure what type of brake it is, I think there are motors on the rear calipers so that must be it?

I think the D3 era ones are cables to the rear hubs and a single motor that pulls on them. 

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3 minutes ago, landroversforever said:

I think the D3 era ones are cables to the rear hubs and a single motor that pulls on them. 

Correct, at least on the L322

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16 hours ago, deep said:

The switch for the handbrake is apparently hidden by the driver's shin.  I wonder if you'd even find it without fumbling for those lethal few seconds?  Absolute insanity.

It's just to the right of your knee but you have to lower your head to find it. It certainly isn't something i would want to have to find quickly when i'm in a stick situation.

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On 8/29/2020 at 9:51 PM, landroversforever said:

I thought the EPB issues with the D3 and RRS were more to do with it never being used and then when it is used it seizes on?

No I beleive it is when the shoes are worn out but have not been adjusted to suit, when applied the screw drive keeps going trying to take up the slack in the cables but runs out of thread and breaks the plastic end stop off the screw resulting in the nut hitting the metal shell and jamming which inturn knackers the screw thread.

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5 hours ago, paime said:

At least you'll always know where the handbrake is in a proper Defender!

They swapped knees!  Except, where the new one is hidden, the old one bangs on your knee as a constant reminder of where to find it.  Yup, you're not wrong.  

 

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1 hour ago, deep said:

They swapped knees!  Except, where the new one is hidden, the old one bangs on your knee as a constant reminder of where to find it.  Yup, you're not wrong.  

 

Unless of course you evolve the design a teeny weeny practical bit and fit a Discovery 1 handbrake lever so that your hand falls to it easily and comfortably without banging your knee 😁

Unless, of course, you're an orangutan ...

Mo

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I'm sitting here wondering whether an electric handbrake will be any more likely to work or not compared to the old defender setup, I mean, they aren't exactly the reliable of things, are they?

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They are reliable if maintained correctly, which is something a lot of newer owners don't have much of a clue about, 

On another note I watched the powerful UK guys video where they change the rear light clusters to the defender X smoked style, all plastic, must cost a fortune on a brand new vehicle even as a option. 

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You have a bespoke wheel made then you need a spacer for it. Hmmm, someone needs more training !

Seems the aftermarket engineers are as inept as Land Rovers stylists !

Mo

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22 hours ago, Mo Murphy said:

Unless of course you evolve the design a teeny weeny practical bit and fit a Discovery 1 handbrake lever so that your hand falls to it easily and comfortably without banging your knee 😁

Unless, of course, you're an orangutan ...

Mo

That must be a practical option for people who don't use the middle seat.  I guess that would also rule it out for some versions of the new Defender!

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