Thoughts and musings on the new defender

[Gazzar]

On 9/25/2020 at 4:36 PM, Snagger said:

Me too.  I see the skills of my colleagues and my own at work being eroded through mandated use of “clever technology”, but when that stuff fails, it’s more confusing than the simpler equipment and and compounds the problem, as well as rotting the capabilities of the operator.

All true, however the technical aids do allow drivers to continue to use their vehicles if infirmity or injury would otherwise preclude safe use.

I've a strained neck at the moment, and had to reverse a flatbed trailer a mile down an old rail line yesterday. In a series, with no PAS. My neck would be quite grateful for a safe Wiz bang revere thing right now. As it is, I've to resort to  beer to dull the ache.

[steve b]

Time for a shunting (☺️) hitch on the front bumper? 

Keep up the good work , my most local preservation Railway has been shut since the start of CV

Steve

[Bowie69]

1 hour ago, Gazzar said:

As it is, I've to resort to  beer to dull the ache.

I don't appear to see the downside?

[Gazzar]

57 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

I don't appear to see the downside?

I expect I will tomorrow morning.

[Snagger]

19 hours ago, Gazzar said:

All true, however the technical aids do allow drivers to continue to use their vehicles if infirmity or injury would otherwise preclude safe use.

I've a strained neck at the moment, and had to reverse a flatbed trailer a mile down an old rail line yesterday. In a series, with no PAS. My neck would be quite grateful for a safe Wiz bang revere thing right now. As it is, I've to resort to  beer to dull the ache.

 

I’d settle for a decent seat - the seats at work ended up doing this to me:

[Gazzar]

Ah. Well, you already know the answer. Volvo.

[Snagger]

Oddly, my Volvo seats actually give me back ache too.  The best sets for me are, strangely, the original Defender seats (I mean pre-2007).  I presume one of those who have test driven the new model can tell us if it has adjustable lumbar support - that’d be a nice feature!

[Gazzar]

4 hours ago, Snagger said:

Oddly, my Volvo seats actually give me back ache too.  The best sets for me are, strangely, the original Defender seats (I mean pre-2007).  I presume one of those who have test driven the new model can tell us if it has adjustable lumbar support - that’d be a nice feature!

Very odd. They were marketed as being orthopedic. I've certainly found them to be incredibly good for long journeys. But then I'm a hunch back that likes series seats.

[Retroanaconda]

4 hours ago, Snagger said:

I presume one of those who have test driven the new model can tell us if it has adjustable lumbar support - that’d be a nice feature!

The manual suggests that they do, or at least suitably specced-up ones do. There were a number of switches and things on the side of the seat in the first edition that I tried, but all I did was move it forward/back so I could reach the pedals properly.

I’m happy to sit on the standard seats in my old 90 for 500+ miles in one go so I doubt I could be classed as ‘fussy’ when it comes to seats.  

[landroversforever]

4 hours ago, Snagger said:

Oddly, my Volvo seats actually give me back ache too.  The best sets for me are, strangely, the original Defender seats (I mean pre-2007).  I presume one of those who have test driven the new model can tell us if it has adjustable lumbar support - that’d be a nice feature!

I'm the same. I've got a dodgy back after I drunkenly folded myself in half backwards on a bouncy assault course. For me the standard Defender seats are one of the most comfy for me.

[deep]

4 hours ago, Snagger said:

Oddly, my Volvo seats actually give me back ache too.  The best sets for me are, strangely, the original Defender seats (I mean pre-2007).  I presume one of those who have test driven the new model can tell us if it has adjustable lumbar support - that’d be a nice feature!

I completely agree.  I've had a bad back for three decades (ruptured disc that never comes right).  The absolute worst vehicles for aggravating it were the Toymota HiLuxes we used as work cars years ago but most cars don't help.  However, over all that time, a long journey in an early 110 or Series 3 Land Rover actually makes my back much better.  Range Rovers and Discoveries have also been fine and my little Mercedes is good if I concentrate on how I sit.  I think, with those Land Rovers, it's a combination of a seat that isn't sloppy and a driving position that more or less forces your bum into the back of the seat that makes it so good.  I haven't driven a post 2007 Land Rover so don't know what changed...

[Snagger]

6 hours ago, deep said:

I completely agree.  I've had a bad back for three decades (ruptured disc that never comes right).  The absolute worst vehicles for aggravating it were the Toymota HiLuxes we used as work cars years ago but most cars don't help.  However, over all that time, a long journey in an early 110 or Series 3 Land Rover actually makes my back much better.  Range Rovers and Discoveries have also been fine and my little Mercedes is good if I concentrate on how I sit.  I think, with those Land Rovers, it's a combination of a seat that isn't sloppy and a driving position that more or less forces your bum into the back of the seat that makes it so good.  I haven't driven a post 2007 Land Rover so don't know what changed...

I find the seat base of the 2007+ Defender a little better than the old seat, probably just because it’s less worn, but the taller backs are also flatter, with less lumbar support than the late SIII County-2007 seats.

I saw you reaction to that photo, Deep.  It made my eyes water at the time too! It’s such a long running and common issue that it has long been known in the game as “Boeing back” 😆, and it is the Boeing guys that get it so much - about 25% of our fleet as opposed to just a few on the Blunderbus (Airbus do much more comfortable seats).  It was about the same proportion of people at EasyJet with bad back or sciatic problems when they started adding 737-700s to the 737-300 fleet.  Same seat, but hard cushions which contort the pelvis and cause the discs to prolapse.  The mantra that hard beds and hard seats are healthier isn’t entirely accurate.

[elbekko]

My back was OK with the new Defender seats, even though they were not the most fancy ones. BMWs absolutely ruin it, so do cheap commuter thingies (new Minis, VW, Citroën, ...). Best I've sat in, in order: Mercedes E-class, RRC, P38, Mercedes C-class.

[deep]

We've wandered way off topic (again) but it's a relevant discussion.  This new Defender is designed as much for long road journeys, with the ability to pull higher lateral forces on some roads, as it is for off-road or rough road work.  Well designed seats are very important.  Having driven a handful of Discos, Range Rovers and Freelanders, I'd expect this aspect of the design to be good.  Then again, I expected an actual Defender replacement so who knows?  Reviews all say it's comfortable.

[Chicken Drumstick]

The seats were ok in the one I drove. But I did find find they hurt my leg after a while. Certainly less comfy than my p38 or even a traditional 90 in this regard. 

[reb78]

The RRC seats I retrofitted to my 110 are the nicest I have at the moment. Very comfortable. My D3 seats are like sitting on slabs of concrete all at the wrong angle! Those D3 seats are less comfy than the ones in the D2 so hard to work out how they managed to downgrade the seats between models!

That said, my trusty old Volvo 240 had armchair comfort up front!!

[deep]

20 hours ago, reb78 said:

The RRC seats I retrofitted to my 110 are the nicest I have at the moment. Very comfortable. My D3 seats are like sitting on slabs of concrete all at the wrong angle! Those D3 seats are less comfy than the ones in the D2 so hard to work out how they managed to downgrade the seats between models!

That said, my trusty old Volvo 240 had armchair comfort up front!!

I put Disco 2 seats in my old Stage One.  They really were special!

[Snagger]

On 9/28/2020 at 11:24 PM, deep said:

We've wandered way off topic (again) but it's a relevant discussion.  This new Defender is designed as much for long road journeys, with the ability to pull higher lateral forces on some roads, as it is for off-road or rough road work.  Well designed seats are very important.  Having driven a handful of Discos, Range Rovers and Freelanders, I'd expect this aspect of the design to be good.  Then again, I expected an actual Defender replacement so who knows?  Reviews all say it's comfortable.

😆😆 126 pages and counting, it’d be unhealthy if the conversation didn’t wander a bit!  I don’t know about you folk, but I regard discussions on a forum like friends sitting around a pub table, following wherever the discussion leads...  Besides, you get a lot of interesting nuggets out of the meandering topic that you would never hear if the discussion was too constrained.

[Maverik]

On 9/28/2020 at 8:24 PM, deep said:

We've wandered way off topic (again)

This topic is a wiggly wandering discussion full stop.

I would advise if you want to bring some light to a topic, create new, this then keeps useful chat together, and also helps populate the forum for decent searchable content.

Also happy to split any topics off this one by Request.

 

Mav

[klivins]

On 9/29/2020 at 1:17 AM, reb78 said:

That said, my trusty old Volvo 240 had armchair comfort up front!!

Thats core reason why I keep my old 240 roadworthy. When I cant climb in the 110 because of pain in spine, I use the Volvo! 

Sorry for offtopic.

[deep]

9 hours ago, Maverik said:

This topic is a wiggly wandering discussion full stop.

I would advise if you want to bring some light to a topic, create new, this then keeps useful chat together, and also helps populate the forum for decent searchable content.

Also happy to split any topics off this one by Request.

 

Mav

I'm as happy as anyone to wander off topic.  I used to be notorious for it when I was part of a Bible study group.  There's just that tiny feeling that the someone must be getting annoyed because that often happens on interweb fora!

It has struck me that anyone wanting to get a broad, objective, bigotted, informative and/or ignorant perspective about the new Defender could do worse than to put a few hours aside and wade through this thread.  Popcorn, chocolate, a pot of tea or a bottle of something at the elbow and settle in...

[reb78]

2 hours ago, klivins said:

Thats core reason why I keep my old 240 roadworthy. When I cant climb in the 110 because of pain in spine, I use the Volvo! 

Sorry for offtopic.

I wish so much that i never gave mine away. It was in great condition but not worth much at that time. I had too many cars and wanted it to go to a good home. Gave it away To someone who needed a car on the condition he kept it running. First sign of a minor repair and the idiot scrapped it. I only found out afterwards or I would have taken it back.

Edited October 6, 2020 by reb78

[Naks]

 

 

[jeremy996]

The video makes some interesting points, but key was the trade-off between absolute reliability and the quality of support.

He makes the point that less than perfect reliability can be mitigated by good support and then gives the Australian decided case as an example of the importer, Land Rover Australia being much less than helpful: 

https://www.millsoakley.com.au/thinking/when-life-gives-you-lemons-applicant-awarded-landmark-sum-in-vcat-proceedings-for-faulty-range-rover/. Bare in mind that this summary was written by the solicitors for the supplying dealer, not the plaintiff or Land Rover Australia. 

A more legalistic summary from another lawyer: https://legalwiseseminars.com.au/defective-range-rover-nets-record-refund-under-australian-consumer-law/

This rather more colourful summary is from the video presenter: https://autoexpert.com.au/videoblog/the-truth-about-range-rover-ownership-and-what-the-court-said

Edited October 9, 2020 by jeremy996
speeling

[SteveG]

I see that LR are still subsidizing US sales with profits from UK and Europe 🙄 Price starts at $50K vs £45K, so a £7K discount for shipping it 3000+ miles...