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Thoughts and musings on the new defender


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On 10/31/2020 at 8:20 AM, Red90 said:

Sure.  As long as you can sign off that you will accept no government funded health care when injured. This would help reverse the anti-Darwinism that is currently destroying the species.

Sadly, the species is doing exactly what Darwin's theories predicted and is currently thriving - and destroying most other species along the way, sigh.  Yes, I know that, mathematically the trend can't continue and the end will be worse than the start.  Nevertheless, currently, that is yet to happen.

 

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On 10/30/2020 at 11:20 PM, Red90 said:

Sure.  As long as you can sign off that you will accept no government funded health care when injured. This would help reverse the anti-Darwinism that is currently destroying the species.

Evolution is still happening.  I read an article last week about changes in the last 100 years, and the number of people who grow wisdom teeth has dropped massively in that time, and most people now have weaker, smaller jaws.  There has also been a change in the skeletal structure of the feet, with more small bones or differently assorted small bones.  A third artery in the fore arm that exists in foetus but normally disappears is now increasingly common in adults, again changed in the last few decades.  Quite surprising.  They put the common weakness of the jaw down to better cooked and softer food not needing so much chewing.  The smaller jaw doesn’t accommodate wisdom teeth, but they’re no longer needed.  They didn’t explain the feet.
 

Looking around British town centres on a weekday, I think we can see a strong case for HG Wells’ idea that humanity would evolve into two species, the Eloi and Morlocks...

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Feet problems are probably due to the increase in cushioning in shoes, along with the desire to wear tighter shoes. You only have to look at the increase in plantar fasciitis, bunions, corns etc that people are getting.

Tighter shoes and cushioning are leading to toes not spreading as much when walking, higher arches and weaker foot muscles which all contributes to changes to our bodies and the musculoskeletal structures within. In some cases it benefits us, in others it doesn’t. 

But we are definitely off topic now!

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4 hours ago, Snagger said:

Evolution is still happening... and most people now have weaker, smaller jaws. 

There is hope Nick.

My Mrs' jaw has not suffered from these changes, if anything quite the reverse !

My hearing, on the other hand ...

Mo

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Its not like selection pressure is there for a lot of these .... we aren't dying because we have wisdom teeth or weaker jaws.... so its a wonder these changes are happening... surely there are also nations/cultures where takeaways are not common and so the reverse is true - i.e. a strong jaw is still an advantage?!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Interesting, did not know this until now: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/dana-supplies-high-performing-spicer-advantek-axles-to-new-land-rover-defender-301173193.html?

"Dana Incorporated (NYSE: DAN) announced today that the new 2021 Land Rover Defender features Dana's latest Spicer® AdvanTEK® axles, which are designed to deliver improved performance and greater power density in a compact package.

Known for its rugged design and off-road performance, the Defender has a rich history with roots reaching back to the original Land Rover series of vehicles launched in the late 1940s.  Dana's association began when Land Rover specified Spicer® front and rear axles in the early 1980s and continued through 2016, when the original iconic vehicle was discontinued.  The all-new Defender re-emerged in 2020 and once again specified Dana's robust Spicer axle designs. ..."
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I vaguely remembered hearing the Salisbury rear (and very rare front) were Danas, but ruined a bit by having puny half-shafts to match the Rover axles.

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1 hour ago, deep said:

I vaguely remembered hearing the Salisbury rear (and very rare front) were Danas, but ruined a bit by having puny half-shafts to match the Rover axles.

Dana 60 centres. Still pretty good axles and should be stronger overall than a Rover axle. 
 

I believe Dana had been supplying the Rover axles for many years however. 

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33 minutes ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

I believe Dana had been supplying the Rover axles for many years however. 

I ordered a new genuine crown wheel and pinion for the front diff of our Td5 earlier this year, and found Dana stamped gears in the box.

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16 hours ago, Vogler said:

I ordered a new genuine crown wheel and pinion for the front diff of our Td5 earlier this year, and found Dana stamped gears in the box.

Land Rover has (had?) all axles built by GKN. In 1995, Dana purchased GKN's axle group. Prior to that, Dana axles like the Salisbury where made by GKN under license for the UK market.

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MY21 will have 'Intelligent' AWD: "Permanent All Wheel Drive is standard on Land Rover Defender except for those fitted with the new D300 6-cylinder engine. The D300 engine features Intelligent All Wheel Drive for greater fuel efficiency utilizing Two Wheel Drive capability where appropriate."

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17 hours ago, Naks said:

MY21 will have 'Intelligent' AWD: "Permanent All Wheel Drive is standard on Land Rover Defender except for those fitted with the new D300 6-cylinder engine. The D300 engine features Intelligent All Wheel Drive for greater fuel efficiency utilizing Two Wheel Drive capability where appropriate."

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For less than 2% in laboratory generated fuel savings, I'd rather have a lockable centre diff that I can reliably reverse a trailer in low range on high traction surfaces and not rely on wheel slippage to have the slightest chance of having any torque transfer. The spider gears in the front diff are going to be going like the clappers, I wonder if they actually have bearings. Jap stuff with this setup doesn't actually lock it like this system seems to. Anything with a clutch is going to wear out with use too so are we looking at planned obsolescence?
I also wonder if the change to Advantek diffs and shafts, similar to what Jeeps now use is partly because the current tiny (30mm) rear shafts aren't up to the job of only rear wheel drive? That would be one good outcome from it. That said, I do despair when I look at the lack of innovation in the really short front driveshafts, it's like they have totally given up on any chance of it ever possessing any degree of off road prowess beyond that of any other AWD SUV. Hopefully that ridiculous and totally unnecessary system has a manual lock up with a yellow button that doesn't need to go through a touchscreen to access. A defender that you can't manually engage 4x4 really would be the end of an era, Will there be a 4x2 version for the RAF and urban dwellers I wonder? It all seems such a step backwards to 1990's Japanese technology, nothing there makes it better off road. Where are the antiroll bar disconnects, CTIS and front differential locks, Advantek comes with them as standard will JLR opt out of them? Measurable suspension travel would be nice for next year too.

 

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The unfathomable complexity they love to put into these things is insane.  I was watching TFLs last Defender update on BooTube last night.  Six weeks in and they are on their THIRD new Defender.  First one - the only way to fix the check engine light was to replace the engine!!!  The second one got bricked because the dealer cut a wiring loom trying to fit the factory winch option.  The third one hasn't arrived yet.  I believe they got to drive the first one for three days...

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If the ECUs get bricked for something like that, then that is concrete proof that this car is plain dangerous for use in remote areas or harsh conditions and utterly inappropriate for off-road or working environments.

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It didn’t get bricked, the dealer botched the winch install and damaged a wiring loom, apparently one that’s “irreplaceable” - though more likely just a long lead-time to order. Nothing to do with ECUs.

This whole TFL affair is a catalogue of terrible customer service by their dealer(s). The first car had a fault and needs a new engine, not great but rather than dithering for weeks they should have just swapped the car for them after they found that they couldn’t fix it.

Despite the above, how much of the story we are being given is not clear. The cynic in me is suspicious given that they operate a monetised YouTube channel with click bait headlines, and appear to thrive on as much drama as possible.

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5 minutes ago, Retroanaconda said:

It didn’t get bricked, the dealer botched the winch install and damaged a wiring loom, apparently one that’s “irreplaceable” - though more likely just a long lead-time to order. Nothing to do with ECUs.

This whole TFL affair is a catalogue of terrible customer service by their dealer(s). The first car had a fault and needs a new engine, not great but rather than dithering for weeks they should have just swapped the car for them after they found that they couldn’t fix it.

Despite the above, how much of the story we are being given is not clear. The cynic in me is suspicious given that they operate a monetised YouTube channel with click bait headlines, and appear to thrive on as much drama as possible.

The term  "bricked" originated from small electronic items which become unusable/irreparable after an (often) innocent user mistake or bad repair.  This may be a bit bigger but the term is appropriate, E.C.U. or otherwise.  It would be unthinkable to give up on a car for such a minor problem, if the economy followed the values the public are being slowly encouraged to adopt (in terms of sustainability and valuing diminishing resources).  However, those values stand in the way of the lolly scramble that manufacturers feel obliged to be part of, in which you sell based on the number of toys you can provide, while keeping the costs of making those toys as low as possible. That leads to far more integration of the ultra-complex wiring loom than is desirable when a repair is needed.  It'a mentality where logic is way less powerful than greed.

The same with "the car needs a new engine".  Really??  A minor fault that couldn't even be felt by the petrol-head drivers?  So, a sticky cam lobe?  Weak valve spring?  Cracked head?  Hardly sounds like needing a new engine!  Or did someone break a ring on assembly and scupper a bore?  That would do it but a compression test on the first day would have shown that and they wouldn't have spent weeks chasing electronic ghosts, so unlikely.  What it looks like is that the mechanical side of the engine has been treated like another replace-if-faulty electronic sensor, rather than (surely) saving thousands of currency units by just fixing the stupid thing!  I'm not sure another dealer would have done any better.  They're probably all trained to reach for the computer first and prefer to keep the tools all polished and shiny in that massive cabinet at the back of the workshop...

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How many articles have we all read by mechanics bemoaning apprentices reaching for new parts from stores because the diagnostic computer gave them a basic result, with no further investigation or attempt at repair?  LR franchises have one workshop senior technician and the rest are low experience fitters and apprentices.  They don’t have any real diagnostic skills anymore.  My experiences of their franchises with basic problems on a 109 were atrocious.

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11 hours ago, deep said:

The term  "bricked" originated from small electronic items which become unusable/irreparable after an (often) innocent user mistake or bad repair.  This may be a bit bigger but the term is appropriate, E.C.U. or otherwise.  It would be unthinkable to give up on a car for such a minor problem, if the economy followed the values the public are being slowly encouraged to adopt (in terms of sustainability and valuing diminishing resources).  However, those values stand in the way of the lolly scramble that manufacturers feel obliged to be part of, in which you sell based on the number of toys you can provide, while keeping the costs of making those toys as low as possible. That leads to far more integration of the ultra-complex wiring loom than is desirable when a repair is needed.  It'a mentality where logic is way less powerful than greed.

The same with "the car needs a new engine".  Really??  A minor fault that couldn't even be felt by the petrol-head drivers?  So, a sticky cam lobe?  Weak valve spring?  Cracked head?  Hardly sounds like needing a new engine!  Or did someone break a ring on assembly and scupper a bore?  That would do it but a compression test on the first day would have shown that and they wouldn't have spent weeks chasing electronic ghosts, so unlikely.  What it looks like is that the mechanical side of the engine has been treated like another replace-if-faulty electronic sensor, rather than (surely) saving thousands of currency units by just fixing the stupid thing!  I'm not sure another dealer would have done any better.  They're probably all trained to reach for the computer first and prefer to keep the tools all polished and shiny in that massive cabinet at the back of the workshop...

Most likely all of it is perfectly repairable, but warranty procedure says "replace x entirely". Possibly so the entire faulty unit can be shipped back to the factory for inspection by people who actually know what they're doing.

I also think TFL handled it a bit strangely. Why not accept the engine swap? If that goes wrong, you can still go for another car, but at least try it out. Might've saved them a whole lot of headache.

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If they couldn't fit a winch without cutting a wiring loom, I guess changing an engine would be pretty unlikely to go well.

To be honest, I wouldn't accept a new replacement engine in a brand new vehicle -stuff put together in a garage is never the same as stuff put together on a production line.

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