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Thoughts and musings on the new defender


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19 minutes ago, Escape said:

The Terrain Response in the new Defender seems to be designed to operate in auto mode, and will cope with a lot you throw at it, offering better perfomance tractionwise than older LRs. So the average driver will get further with less effort.

Does the auto mode still kill the throttle? I'll admit I didn't use it when I tested the Defender. I selected Mud & Ruts as that was the terrain I was on, but like in that vid, I too got stopped by it killing the throttle. When I went on the LR Experience Day, they also told us to use Mud & Ruts. But it was quite unpleasant to drive due to it killing the throttle (it was very slippery on that day). So I switched to the Sand mode and it drove way better.

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Except that actually you can manually lock or unlock the centre and rear diffs with the configurable terrain response, if you so wish.

I agree that modern cars don’t offer as engaging a driving experience as old ones, and that is one of the things I really miss from the old 90. And there are uses for which it is better suited - harder off road where body damage is likely, modification to suit bespoke applications etc. But I would be kidding myself to think that the new one isn’t a better vehicle in every other way.

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12 minutes ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

Does the auto mode still kill the throttle? I'll admit I didn't use it when I tested the Defender. I selected Mud & Ruts as that was the terrain I was on, but like in that vid, I too got stopped by it killing the throttle. When I went on the LR Experience Day, they also told us to use Mud & Ruts. But it was quite unpleasant to drive due to it killing the throttle (it was very slippery on that day). So I switched to the Sand mode and it drove way better.

All the modes have DSC on by default, but at varying levels of intervention. Grass/gravel/snow is the one to use for slippery surfaces apparently.

If you prefer the manual approach then with TR2 you can just set up a custom terrain setting with max wheel spin allowed (i.e. DSC dialled right back - or just turn it off completely as above) and both lockers set to engaged. 
 

The TR2 functions (auto/configurable) are an optional feature and one I am regretting not going for at the time. 

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Can't you simply turn off the DSC?

On my L322 it was viewed as a safety system thus overrode the terrain response irrespective of what setting it was in and ultimately limited engine power. Hold the button down and disable it and the engine did what I wanted then.

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49 minutes ago, Retroanaconda said:

Except that actually you can manually lock or unlock the centre and rear diffs with the configurable terrain response, if you so wish.

I don't remember finding that option during the testdrive. I know you can set the sensitivity to get them to lock sooner. But that involved faffing about on the touchscreen, so IMHO useless if you're actually driving off road. Give me an acutal button anytime, even if it's an electronic one to prevent the use in high range, at speed, whatever ... to deal with users running through life without the benefit of a clue.

As above, I do agree it's a superior vehicle for getting from A to B, but again, I like driving not just being moved about. 😉 And yes, I know I am a dinosaur and don't expect the market to cater for my particular wishes, my kind will just go extinct (but not without a fight, keeping some classics alive as long as possible).

Filip

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2 hours ago, Retroanaconda said:

The TR2 functions (auto/configurable) are an optional feature and one I am regretting not going for at the time. 

Reckon its something you could pay to have added at a later date? Just an unlockable feature rather than having any different hardware? 

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It’s in the configurable TR settings. So you set it up before you set off and then leave it, no need to fiddle while driving.

Yes it is just software so can be added apparently, though not something you’d want to do while under warranty. 

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1 hour ago, Retroanaconda said:

It’s in the configurable TR settings. So you set it up before you set off and then leave it, no need to fiddle while driving.

Yes it is just software so can be added apparently, though not something you’d want to do while under warranty. 

Doesn't manually setting it all up sort of defeat the entire purpose of Terrain Response though? Not knocking it as an option, but it is almost an admission that the TR they offer today doesn't really work. To further this, if you have locking diffs and the like, while automated control can be great, if you are using a touchscreen to lock them manually, it makes it very difficult to change while on the move. A physical set of buttons would be a lot more useful for a 'manual' mode IMO. As there would be plenty of times I wouldn't want a rear locker engaged.

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Mercedes-G-Class-diff-locks.jpg

034a4286.jpg

 

 

Screenshot 2021-03-16 at 2.57.29 pm.png

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I don’t think so, it’s more that they’ve lined the provision up with the intended market. The TR will do what 95% of users need and so the 5% that want that manual control are catered for via the described procedure.

It’s not as ‘easy’ as a button on the dash or a level on the transmission tunnel but then those are not something I’d expect to see given the intended market. Most people buying modern Land Rovers wouldn’t even know what a diff lock is, let alone how and when to use them!

I’d have loved it to have come with a manual gearbox and three lockers you can turn on/off with a button but I’m not going to complain that it didn’t as I don’t represent the majority of their buyers. This different approach however doesn’t many it any less capable and in a large proportion of hypothetical off-road scenarios I think it would run rings round my old 90. 

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58 minutes ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

Doesn't manually setting it all up sort of defeat the entire purpose of Terrain Response though? 

I thought it was to satisfy picky barstewards who love to grumble that the TR system doesn't do what they want / they know better than the R&D department and that you can't beat proper lockers :ph34r:

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11 hours ago, Mo Murphy said:

Whatever happened to lock the diff and put it in low box. 

Durrrrrriiiiiinnnnnngggggg the waaoooor it was so much easier.

Mo

Whoa, way too complicated!! I bought a lovely little Series 3 yesterday.  Pull the red lever back.  Done.

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17 hours ago, Retroanaconda said:

It’s in the configurable TR settings. So you set it up before you set off and then leave it, no need to fiddle while driving.

Yes it is just software so can be added apparently, though not something you’d want to do while under warranty. 

I stand corrected, @elbekko told me he was in fact able to program the lockers to be permanently on in the custom Terrain Response setting. That is a major advantage over previous systems and would cater for specific driving conditions or styles.

15 hours ago, Retroanaconda said:

I don’t think so, it’s more that they’ve lined the provision up with the intended market. The TR will do what 95% of users need and so the 5% that want that manual control are catered for via the described procedure.

It’s not as ‘easy’ as a button on the dash or a level on the transmission tunnel but then those are not something I’d expect to see given the intended market. Most people buying modern Land Rovers wouldn’t even know what a diff lock is, let alone how and when to use them!

I’d have loved it to have come with a manual gearbox and three lockers you can turn on/off with a button but I’m not going to complain that it didn’t as I don’t represent the majority of their buyers. This different approach however doesn’t many it any less capable and in a large proportion of hypothetical off-road scenarios I think it would run rings round my old 90. 

Totally agree! It delivers to the intented market and I think sales are pretty good (given current circumstances).

 

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12 hours ago, deep said:

Whoa, way too complicated!! I bought a lovely little Series 3 yesterday.  Pull the red lever back.  Done.

There is a yellow lever that you can push down too though I don't want over complicate it for you 😉

Mo

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8 hours ago, Mo Murphy said:

There is a yellow lever that you can push down too though I don't want over complicate it for you 😉

Mo

Purely decorative.  As in, it works but only the real enthusiasts would ever use it.  At the risk of complicating life beyond our capacity to bear it, the yellow knob can't function fully without the red lever.  Now, see what you've done??

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1 minute ago, deep said:

Purely decorative.  As in, it works but only the real enthusiasts would ever use it.  At the risk of complicating life beyond our capacity to bear it, the yellow knob can't function fully without the red lever.  Now, see what you've done??

Blimey, red lever before yellow ! Way beyond a normal persons capacity to comprehend.

Perhaps we should scrap these needlessly complicated old Land Rovers and get new Pretenders which will do it all for us (if we're willing to pay the extra) 😁

Mo

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On 3/16/2021 at 1:12 PM, Escape said:


Ulike previous generations of TR where you had an easy to find...  It seems to be mostly for show, it takes a lot of effort to get maybe a bit more performance, but it will surely impress the hi-tech brigade as you have a more expensive, more complex systems with more buttons to push. Never mind that you're not really controlling anything (like turning a locker on or off), just nudging the built-in programming one way or the other (and hoping it does what you expect). 

Most people aren’t impressed by ability, effort or competence anymore, just money and bling.

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