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Thoughts and musings on the new defender


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On 5/15/2021 at 7:24 PM, elbekko said:

I'd love to throw some portal boxes on an LR independent setup. If only I was swimming in cash...

Yes, exactly, I've been saying the same thing too in this thread, it's he only way I can see of being able to turn the D7 platform into something useful off road. It would also lend itself to the addition of CTIS to further enhance the concept of never getting out the vehicle lest your shoes get dirty.

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On 5/18/2021 at 1:57 AM, Anderzander said:

This chap may manage to upset everyone ? 

Yep.  He’s incompetent.  He’s impressed by big numbers but has no concept of vehicle dynamics and why things have to be heavy or handle a certain way.  He also has an annoying manner.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

Thanks for sharing. A good example of the wrong tyres for the terrain I think. Still full props for the owner using the vehicle like that.

I thought it was a painful video to watch - just a prat playing in a puddle. Cant imagine having enough time to waste it doing that with any of my vehicles even though they have the correct tyres!

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18 minutes ago, reb78 said:

I thought it was a painful video to watch - just a prat playing in a puddle. Cant imagine having enough time to waste it doing that with any of my vehicles even though they have the correct tyres!

Yeah sort of agree. Although surely that is the entire intent of all of the pay n' play sites? Not that I personally frequent them for that. But I can sort of see the appeal of having a play in a 4x4 off road.

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14 minutes ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

Yeah sort of agree. Although surely that is the entire intent of all of the pay n' play sites? Not that I personally frequent them for that. But I can sort of see the appeal of having a play in a 4x4 off road.

Maybe. Each to their own and all that. Not my cup of tea for sure.

I cant help but think 'more money than sense' when you see things like that knowing the cost of the vehicle and the way it was getting chucked around in the water with no real skill. Interesting watching how the G wagen (albeit with the correct tyres) just trundled round bits where the other vehicles were spinning wheels away!

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18 hours ago, ThreePointFive said:

People in the comments are not being kind.

I’m not surprised.  He got the optional winch, but not the recovery points or sensible tyres.  All the gearski, no ideaski...  The G Wagen shows that the most important element is appropriate tyres.

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17 hours ago, reb78 said:

I cant help but think 'more money than sense' when you see things like that knowing the cost of the vehicle 

I guess, but on the flip side, if it was just being used as a Chelsea Tractor, people would moan that the only off roading it does is bumping up and down curbs. I guess sometimes people just can't win :P 

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But can you imagine how long it will take with a pressure washer to get all the underside cleaned off properly? 

Likely never get round to it, I suppose.

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5 hours ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

I guess, but on the flip side, if it was just being used as a Chelsea Tractor, people would moan that the only off roading it does is bumping up and down curbs. I guess sometimes people just can't win :P 

Oh, I know what you mean but I dislike both extremes!

I thought this was perhaps a more sensible use of the car and assessment of its abilities in water though - go to 13 mins in:

 

 

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In the Russian video it's impressive how the terrain response copes with the poor driving and manages to keep the Defender moving. I'm not really surprised, as that is exactly what it's meant for, getting the car places the driver would otherwise never reach. It also proves how little driver involvement is really needed, and that's what puts me off modern stuff. Clearly to give the traction control a chance you need to apply a decent amount of power, not trundle about and stop at the most inappropriate times, especially on road biased tyres. I can understand him being somewhat cautious with a new an expensive vehicle, but if you take it to a pay an play you'd better drive it like you mean.
Still good to see the new Defender being used and no doubt enjoyed off road.

Filip

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On 5/27/2021 at 12:43 PM, Escape said:

Clearly to give the traction control a chance you need to apply a decent amount of power, not trundle about and stop at the most inappropriate times, especially on road biased tyres.

I have, very carefully, been trying a few things with the new Defender, and in any of the off-road programs it needs very little throttle to activate the TC. It is quite a difference with the D4 I had before the Defender. That needed a lot more wheelspin to get the TC to work.

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I did read somewhere that early systems (perhaps like my Freelander 2 has?) needed around two thirds of a wheel rotation for the traction control system to read properly, whereas later systems (especially the new Defender) only need a very few degrees of rotation to read properly.  Watching the odd video, that does look about right.  I think the system still needs a bit of power so it knows you actually want to move but nowhere near as much as it did.

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I don’t think so. Climbing a steep and loose rocky track a few weeks ago there was no scrabbling or loss of momentum while the TC did its thing, it just went up as normal. Having the rear and centre diffs locked up helps a great deal with that of course. It felt very composed indeed. 

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I agree with Retroanaconda; I've driven up muddy / wet-gravelly slopes in my Defender and fairly recent RRs and found it to be almost seamless.  Just a quick twitch as you apply throttle and up we went. LR have got that aspect bang-on. 

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I should have been more specific, I was talking about situations like in the Russian video, lots of mud and road biased tyres. I too have experienced the new Defender's TC offroad, as long as there was any traction, it moved off seamlessly. But that was all on dry terrain, not muddy tracks. There you will need to apply enough throttle to give the tyres a chance to clean, I'd say even more so with the TC as it will be sapping some power controlling the spin. Most of all, my comment was directed at the poor driving skills, not just taking it easy but actually stopping instead of trying to power through. As I said before, it's a testament to Terrain Response that it was able to keep the car moving.

So while I may not be a fan of the new Defender, I do acknowledge it's capabilities and do not doubt the Terrain Response. It's just that I prefer to drive myself rather than sit back and leave it all to a computer. Same reason I use classic cars with as little assistance as possible as a daily drivers.

Filip

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That’s fair enough, I haven’t driven it in slippery mud yet and I can imagine that there will be more wheelspin there, as indeed there needs to be.

On balance I too prefer to drive off road the ‘old fashioned’ way and on the road I do not like the various driver assistance safety features of the new car. If it was available without these and with a manual gearbox I would have opted for that spec - though I have to admit that the autobox is growing on me!

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19 minutes ago, Retroanaconda said:

That’s fair enough, I haven’t driven it in slippery mud yet and I can imagine that there will be more wheelspin there, as indeed there needs to be.

On balance I too prefer to drive off road the ‘old fashioned’ way and on the road I do not like the various driver assistance safety features of the new car. If it was available without these and with a manual gearbox I would have opted for that spec - though I have to admit that the autobox is growing on me!

A good auto is the way forward!

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Tyre design has migrated towards having to fling mud off and that has been terrible for the state of the countryside, around here at least.  You can achieve that wheelspin by engaging "sand mode".  It would be interesting to see that newer setup working with self-cleaning, directionally-treaded tyres though.

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