Thoughts and musings on the new defender

[L19MUD]

16 hours ago, ThreePointFive said:

Both cars doing exactly the same job, that's perfect. Let's be honest, for 95% of us these are leisure vehicles and used for this purpose.

Exactly this! Day to day mine is used for muddy dog walks, then it is put to work when I tow the car/plant trailer but then does the most miles with the camping trailer behind it, kayaks on the roof and bikes on the back! It seems new Defender owners have exactly the same uses in mind as the majority of the old Defender owners

[missingsid]

21 minutes ago, L19MUD said:

Exactly this! Day to day mine is used for muddy dog walks, then it is put to work when I tow the car/plant trailer but then does the most miles with the camping trailer behind it, kayaks on the roof and bikes on the back! It seems new Defender owners have exactly the same uses in mind as the majority of the old Defender owners

Good point. Looking back it is like we all (or most or some or just me) are critical of the new Defenders ability based on the combined caperbilities of every previous LR (not RR, too luxurious?) product. Completely missing if the current requirement has moved on a little from then.

For me it was easy I only owned a LR for offload fun, and until recently would never consider one as normal daily use.

But if a daily car can pretent to be a 4x4 then why not a 4x4 as a daily car if it is designed for both.

[Chicken Drumstick]

22 minutes ago, L19MUD said:

Exactly this! Day to day mine is used for muddy dog walks, then it is put to work when I tow the car/plant trailer but then does the most miles with the camping trailer behind it, kayaks on the roof and bikes on the back! It seems new Defender owners have exactly the same uses in mind as the majority of the old Defender owners

But then, a Discovery (or even a Range Rover) of any generation can also do this. I'm not sure it is these "things" that really define what the old Defender is or was. It is more the intangible stuff, the things the new one doesn't have.

[landroversforever]

Looking again, and after seeing another 110 yesterday.... I think this has the potential to balance the looks a bit. The 110 is quite fat for its length (bit like me really), adding this length to the back end might help that. 

[Snagger]

4 hours ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

But then, a Discovery (or even a Range Rover) of any generation can also do this. I'm not sure it is these "things" that really define what the old Defender is or was. It is more the intangible stuff, the things the new one doesn't have.

Yep.  It comes back to the point that this is really Discovery 6 or another new Discovery range product, not a Defender.  It misses the point about Defenders, and the latest video on the Ineos threads about Halo being involved underlines it very, very well.

[Anderzander]

Wow 146 pages 😯

Its like an ex girlfriend who’s gone in a different direction (up market and unreliable?!) and we can’t get over it 😂

[geoffbeaumont]

6 hours ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

But then, a Discovery (or even a Range Rover) of any generation can also do this. I'm not sure it is these "things" that really define what the old Defender is or was. It is more the intangible stuff, the things the new one doesn't have.

Ah, but not with the required noise, leaks, draughts and lack of elbow room  The new defender is definitely more of a direct replacement for an older range rover than an old defender. For this sort of use, that's not a bad thing!

[Mo Murphy]

I'm going to need 2 cans of petrol for one of those hideous monsters ! 

Just when you thought Gerry couldn't design anything uglier than his "90" and "110" this monstrosity turns up 🥴

Mo

[deep]

Lots of complaints about the look, based on some distorted telephoto photographs of a heavily camouflaged vehicle?  I know it won't be pretty because none of the new Defenders are pretty (and they weren't designed to be).  Looking at a photo last night, it struck me that this looks like a cheap alternative to the Mercedes GL (or whatever they renamed it to).  Bung in a big V8 and I can see North Americans queuing up to buy one.

Going back to that ambulance idea - it would be a pretty safe bet the ride quality will be streets ahead of the rattly Mercedes ambulance that rushed me to hospital a week or two ago.  That harsh ride was quite a surprise!

[Snagger]

15 hours ago, deep said:

Lots of complaints about the look, based on some distorted telephoto photographs of a heavily camouflaged vehicle?  I know it won't be pretty because none of the new Defenders are pretty (and they weren't designed to be).  Looking at a photo last night, it struck me that this looks like a cheap alternative to the Mercedes GL (or whatever they renamed it to).  Bung in a big V8 and I can see North Americans queuing up to buy one.

Going back to that ambulance idea - it would be a pretty safe bet the ride quality will be streets ahead of the rattly Mercedes ambulance that rushed me to hospital a week or two ago.  That harsh ride was quite a surprise!

But the Merc is not likely to break down on the way…

[JeremySteel]

Well the beautiful new Defender hasn't been around long enough to show the inevitable faults, but a reliability survey from CarBuyer.co.uk is interesting:

"Land Rover came a disappointing 25th out of 30 manufacturers in our 2020 Driver Power owner satisfaction survey, but this still kept it ahead of rivals BMW and Mercedes." 

The old one is beautiful too, but if you want to get your horsebox out of a wet, muddy field the new one will likely be better - as will the comfort of the drive back home. And, unlike previous partners, the voice control actually does what I ask

 

[landroversforever]

23 hours ago, deep said:

Bung in a big V8 and I can see North Americans queuing up to buy one.

They’re putting the 5L in it  

 

On a different note, saw a 90 hard top for the first time in the flesh and I really quite like it. Just wish they’d made slightly more of an attempt with making the lighting layout closer to the original. 

Chatted to the owner briefly and he likes it. If he did less miles he’d have another original defender but this one is good for the miles and the access requirements too (pest control). Said it’s averaging about 30mpg ish with lots of short journeys. 
 

[deep]

9 hours ago, Snagger said:

But the Merc is not likely to break down on the way…

Um ... I seriously considered getting one of these a few months ago (there's a lot of car for the money, second hand).  Then I read about the silly little things that go wrong and the cost of fixing them and just bought a low mileage Freelander 2.  It's already broken down (starter brushes turned to dust at only 55,000 miles.  Very easy to fix and not expensive either)!  Still, I wouldn't choose between the two brands based on which is less likely to give trouble!

[deep]

I should add that I just sold a sub 60,000  mile Mercedes SLK.  A beautiful car in so many ways but anything electronic was a complete 'mare to deal with, followed closely by brittle plastics that aged terribly.  

[Jamie_grieve]

2 hours ago, deep said:

I should add that I just sold a sub 60,000  mile Mercedes SLK.  A beautiful car in so many ways but anything electronic was a complete 'mare to deal with, followed closely by brittle plastics that aged terribly.  

True but no Mercedes ever, even over two centuries has even once needed a starter motor replaced at 55,000 miles.

[Jamie_grieve]

On 6/23/2021 at 9:55 AM, Chicken Drumstick said:

But then, a Discovery (or even a Range Rover) of any generation can also do this. I'm not sure it is these "things" that really define what the old Defender is or was. It is more the intangible stuff, the things the new one doesn't have.

I think a lot of people chose to ignore this comment so I thought I'd repeat it again here. The new defender is a Discovery 5S, prove me wrong......

Edited June 24, 2021 by Jamie_grieve

[deep]

23 hours ago, Jamie_grieve said:

True but no Mercedes ever, even over two centuries has even once needed a starter motor replaced at 55,000 miles.

Maybe not but, to be fair, it was only brushes, not a whole starter motor!  Plus, they were far easier to swap over than in the old days.  Actually, the modern Mercedes is very much like the modern Land Rover - fiendishly complicated and not entirely sorted before going to market.

I fully agree with your other post.  There is virtually no functional difference between a Discovery and a Defender these days.  It's really just the projected image (for what that's worth).

[Mo Murphy]

23 hours ago, Jamie_grieve said:

I think a lot of people chose to ignore this comment so I thought I'd repeat it again here. The new defender is a Discovery 5S, prove me wrong......

Or maybe the Freelander 3 ...

Deep would know 😉😁

(Runs for cover)

Mo

[jeremy996]

Marshall's, my local LR dealer offered me an extended test drive in their demo 90 X petrol. First reaction, compared to my '89 110CSW it is like the USS Enterprise! I have no idea about most of the electronics but it was quiet, smooth and very fast. As a dealer demo it was very expensive too, £80k OTR. They showed me the basic 90 Hardtop too, which was much less blingy, but I gather the third seat is not an option for a real adult and a long drive, as there is no real place for the extra feet. Does anyone have practical experience? The dealership have not seen a three seat one yet.

 

[Gazzar]

On 6/26/2021 at 12:21 AM, Mo Murphy said:

Or maybe the Freelander 3 ...

Deep would know 😉😁

(Runs for cover)

Mo

As far as I'm concerned, they're all Freelanders. Unless it was designed with a stick on the beach in Anglesey,  updated by David Bache, it's a Freelander.

[JeremySteel]

Nice looking motor Jeremy. Is that the I6 petrol?

The new Defenders have provoked a Freelander/Disco5 debate a lot here. I have driven Freelanders and newest Disco (on road and on the tame LR 'Experience' off-road courses) but I don't want to get into that.

I have a couple of friends locally that have 08 and 14 plate Defenders (County). Their vehicles are lovely old things but, due to second hand prices getting excitable, those vehicles haven't seen mud for years.  I haven't done any really rough off-road; muddy fields/tracks have been my limit and the traction has been impressive , even on the standard-issue tyres. I'd have to have a bigger wallet to go bonkers.

If you're having problems with Pivi-Pro ensure you've got the July 1st update; apparently the SOTA updates are downloaded in batches. I got mine yesterday and everything seems better/faster than before.

Whilst we won't suffer rusty chassis I'd suggest a wax coating on the powder-coated bits underneath. I saw some awful corrosion on a Velar website on powder-coated suspension and drive-shaft  parts.

I've become a big fan of Bilt-Hamber products compared to some of the old-faithful brands. Warm sunny days are the ideal time to clean and wax your under-carriage.

 

Edited July 3, 2021 by JeremySteel

[Naks]

 

[missingsid]

14 hours ago, Gazzar said:

As far as I'm concerned, they're all Freelanders. Unless it was designed with a stick on the beach in Anglesey,  updated by David Bache, it's a Freelander.

Is this just bait?

A D3/4 is definitely not a Freelander and presumably a D5 is an extention of that?

[Bowie69]

Doubtful bait, but certainly an opinion that echos many of the alt-right brand of Land Rover brandism 

 

(For those intent on taking offence, this is a JOKE! )

[Gazzar]

Not bait. My opinion.

They've gone downhill since they abandoned leaf springs. They've become more comfortable, quieter, more economic, more stylish, better marketed, more complicated, more expensive and less repairable. 

Now, honestly, who wants that?

 

I'll stick with my Landrover, thanks. Who needs hearing anyway.

 

PS if I win the lotto, I'll have two, thanks.