Thoughts and musings on the new defender

[Anderzander]

How much would this have been new ?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2021-Land-Rover-Defender-110-X-DYNAMIC-HSE-7-SEATS-Auto-Estate-Diesel-Automatic-/194414862934?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0
 

£95k for a 2nd hand one seems pretty incredible.

[elbekko]

16 hours ago, Snagger said:

The towing restriction is more likely because of the braking limits and heavier empty weight of the PHEV with all its batteries and the motor as well as the engine and transmission, rather than attractive power or torque concern.

I doubt it. I did the research in here a few pages back, even with the slight extra mass for the batteries it doesn't come close to max train weight with a 3.5T trailer. And I very much doubt those 250kg are going to make the difference to brakes and such considering a Series is allowed to tow 3.5T as well. At that weight the braking comes from the trailer anyway.

[Snagger]

Comparison with the SIII is probably futile - I doubt it’d get that certification with modern day standards.  
 

The PHEV will be heavier than the V8 model, so the lower towing weight won’t be due to handling issues and resistance to Jack-knifing or oscillation, though I can see how a difference in wheelbase might justify such a restriction, the short wheel base models being less stable.  Not will it be due to the tractive abilities.  I can’t see what else it could be from other than the smaller brakes, unless the chassis has been compromised somehow to fit the batteries, which seems very unlikely.  

[jeremy996]

12 hours ago, Anderzander said:

How much would this have been new ?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2021-Land-Rover-Defender-110-X-DYNAMIC-HSE-7-SEATS-Auto-Estate-Diesel-Automatic-/194414862934?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0
 

£95k for a 2nd hand one seems pretty incredible.

Running what I can see through the Land Rover website configurator comes to £93,920, so only a small premium for quick delivery!

[L19MUD]

13 hours ago, Anderzander said:

How much would this have been new ?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2021-Land-Rover-Defender-110-X-DYNAMIC-HSE-7-SEATS-Auto-Estate-Diesel-Automatic-/194414862934?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0
 

£95k for a 2nd hand one seems pretty incredible.

Forgetting the price for now. I don't mind the fake chequer plate on the bonnet/wing tops too much but it looks awful in front of each wheel!

[Happyoldgit]

21 hours ago, L19MUD said:

Forgetting the price for now. I don't mind the fake chequer plate on the bonnet/wing tops too much but it looks awful in front of each wheel!

Agreed. From a looks alone standpoint it appears to be a fussy afterthought.

[simonr]

On 10/14/2021 at 2:26 PM, elbekko said:

I don't really get how this applies to the Defender PHEV. The difference between 3000kg and 3500kg isn't going to make the battery last all that much longer. Advertise that the vehicle is capable of towing, but with the caveat that it can only do it with the engine on, and nobody would care.

It was more in reference to the rather low tow limits of the majority of EV's - which someone had mentioned prior.  It does not apply to a PHEV in the slightest.  The whole concept of Hybrid EV's with almost no electric range is just greenwashing.

[JeremySteel]

The PHEV is likely more to do with legislation and average fleet emissions; old Harry in his garage discussed it in his RRS Youtube a couple of years ago.

Anyone who wanted to do a lot of towing etc. would go for the diesel. True Real World figures, like most PHEVs, will be miles different from the manufacturer's careful usage of official testing.

 

[deep]

1 hour ago, JeremySteel said:

 

Anyone who wanted to do a lot of towing etc. would go for the diesel. True Real World figures, like most PHEVs, will be miles different from the manufacturer's careful usage of official testing.

 

True.  When you do a little digging, the plug in hybrid Defender and the V8 produce quite similar economy, once that battery goes flat.  That shouldn't be surprising.

[Naks]

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/land-rover-defender-becomes-company-best-seller

"The new Land Rover Defender scooped up 16,725 retail sales around the globe during the three months to September 30, up 70 per cent year on year.
As such, the reborn retro icon became the company’s top-selling model overtaking the Range Rover Evoque, despite its role not being that of a conventional high-volume chart-topper.
The Defender was also the only Jaguar, Land Rover or Range Rover product to grow its sales over the quarter – a period in which JLR’s wholesales and retails both tumbled.
The smash sales success of Defender overseas echoes its take-up in Australia, where it has likewise become JLR’s top-selling model with 1495 YTD sales. ..."

Edited November 5, 2021 by Naks

[missingsid]

1 hour ago, Naks said:

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/land-rover-defender-becomes-company-best-seller

"The new Land Rover Defender scooped up 16,725 retail sales around the globe during the three months to September 30, up 70 per cent year on year.
As such, the reborn retro icon became the company’s top-selling model overtaking the Range Rover Evoque, despite its role not being that of a conventional high-volume chart-topper.
The Defender was also the only Jaguar, Land Rover or Range Rover product to grow its sales over the quarter – a period in which JLR’s wholesales and retails both tumbled.
The smash sales success of Defender overseas echoes its take-up in Australia, where it has likewise become JLR’s top-selling model with 1495 YTD sales. ..."

" the Slovakia-built Defender " oh dear i never knew this!

"Meanwhile, Autocar reports the Defender name may be used for a new, luxury model based on the next-generation Range Rover underpinnings. Thus making ‘Defender’ its own sub-brand. " makes sense given the history of RR becoming a brand not a model but I hope not.

[deep]

10 hours ago, missingsid said:

" the Slovakia-built Defender " oh dear i never knew this!

"Meanwhile, Autocar reports the Defender name may be used for a new, luxury model based on the next-generation Range Rover underpinnings. Thus making ‘Defender’ its own sub-brand. " makes sense given the history of RR becoming a brand not a model but I hope not.

Well, they have said for quite a few years that they wanted defined product lines (with more than one model) based on Range Rover, Discovery and Defender, so it shouldn't be surprising.  Those lines do seem very, very blurred though.  The new Defender is very close to the bigger Discovery, based on the way it is made and conceived, the on/off road dynamics and (you could argue) intended market of "adventure" focussed people wanting lots of seats.  Yet, in terms of silence, smoothness, power etc. it really competes well with Range Rovers of the last twenty years.

There might be some validity in using the new Range Rover underpinnings in a Defender.  Given that there isn't even a pretence any longer of a Defender being something simple and easy to fix, you may as well add rear wheel steering to make it quite a bit more manoeuvrable in tight, off road situations.  It could be that the "luxury" idea is misleading and they are just going for a bit of one-upmanship in the pseudo off-road market?

[Escape]

11 hours ago, missingsid said:

"Meanwhile, Autocar reports the Defender name may be used for a new, luxury model based on the next-generation Range Rover underpinnings. Thus making ‘Defender’ its own sub-brand. " makes sense given the history of RR becoming a brand not a model but I hope not.

Just like the Stage1 and 90/110 were based on Range Rover Classic running gear. But back then there were a lot more differences between both models than just some design cues and clearly a totally different target audience, unlike today.

[missingsid]

9 hours ago, Escape said:

Just like the Stage1 and 90/110 were based on Range Rover Classic running gear. But back then there were a lot more differences between both models than just some design cues and clearly a totally different target audience, unlike today.

Don't quite agree that Stage 1 was RRC based, only the engine and gearbox transferbox are RRC. The rest was Series as the 90/110 did not exist yet.

Sure the 90/110 was RRC based but this was when the RRC was based on Series technology so it could be argued the other way. Semantics probably, stubbornness on my part sure.

[Gazzar]

Nah. All freelanders, the lot of them. Just fancy euroboxes. 

[Mo Murphy]

4 hours ago, Gazzar said:

Nah. All freelanders, the lot of them. Just fancy euroboxes. 

This, you're all non-gender specific.

I think.

Mo

[jeremy996]

Autocar show a few images in a US patent application that apparently show us what the upcoming "130" will look like. The full article is at https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-2022-land-rover-defender-130-design-revealed-patent

[L19MUD]

8 minutes ago, jeremy996 said:

Autocar show a few images in a US patent application that apparently show us what the upcoming "130" will look like. The full article is at https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-2022-land-rover-defender-130-design-revealed-patent

 

Excuse my 'skills' in MS paint but that could look very much better like this 🙂

 

[jeremy996]

38 minutes ago, L19MUD said:

Excuse my 'skills' in MS paint but that could look very much better like this 🙂

 

The Autocar article suggests you could be very close to the reality shortly!

[deep]

"It's therefore likely to command a substantial price premium over the other Defender models and be available in top-end trim levels only."  That won't please long-range travellers, utility companies or anyone else who just wants a roomier version (in the style of the earlier 127/130 models)!

 

[Gazzar]

True. But the JLR management aren't interested in that market. 

They're a niche luxury vehicle company, simple as that.

[Mo Murphy]

I just watched the new Bond film. How marvellous to watch the Pretenders getting smashed up by a Jap 4x4.

Respect, Mr. Bond.

Mo

[Chicken Drumstick]

20 hours ago, L19MUD said:

Excuse my 'skills' in MS paint but that could look very much better like this 🙂

 

Always thought they should have done a double cab pickup with the D3. It would have sold well in the USA I'm sure. And would have been easy and cheap to introduce I'd have thought.

[JeremySteel]

Gazzar is right. It's a utility Range Rover / Disco now.

I doubt if boulder-basher off-roaders represent more than 0.01% of their sales.

Harry, Horsies and Caravanists are a far greater market with big wallets..

My main gripe is the 2 candle-power reversing lights.

Nice bit of work with MS Paint. Cheap & Easy? Nothing is cheap & easy in automotive sadly. Ask Mr Ineos.

[Chicken Drumstick]

2 hours ago, JeremySteel said:

 

Nice bit of work with MS Paint. Cheap & Easy? Nothing is cheap & easy in automotive sadly. Ask Mr Ineos.

It's all relative....

The D3 used a dual chassis design. I'm sure in "automotive terms" it would have been very easy to produce a different upper monocoque for a dual cab pickup, retaining the same structure from the C pillar forwards for the most part.