Thoughts and musings on the new defender

[deep]

8 hours ago, Naks said:

finally, possibly something without camo:

Well, it might be a generic, over-complicated, modern "Land Rover" under the skin but, at least, the desire to sort-of look like a Defender has produced a cleaner and more European looking vehicle on the outside.  I don't see it replacing my 110 but I do see how people would see it as desirable - especially given that laws, economics and the relentless desire of the modern consumer to be swamped in gadgets don't allow anything like an old-school Land Rover any more.  Doesn't seem any doubt this photo is genuine.

[reb78]

8 minutes ago, deep said:

Well, it might be a generic, over-complicated, modern "Land Rover" under the skin but, at least, the desire to sort-of look like a Defender has produced a cleaner and more European looking vehicle on the outside.  I don't see it replacing my 110 but I do see how people would see it as desirable - especially given that laws, economics and the relentless desire of the modern consumer to be swamped in gadgets don't allow anything like an old-school Land Rover any more.  Doesn't seem any doubt this photo is genuine.

I agree. But why cant they call it something else?!

[Ex Member]

LR math.

90" = 102"
110" = 119"
130" = 119"

 

[landroversforever]

One thought on the obsolete parts.... are not all benefitting from the fact that the old version was in production for long? The same way the older VW crowds and minis too benefit from the old models being built up until ‘recently’.    

[Ex Member]

Was just talking to a friend that is a salesman at a LR dealer.  He says all the new stuff is carp with horrible reliability and they all sit around and joke about how bad it is.  He also says part availability even for the new stuff is really poor.  He was told the only reason the Defender has been delayed is that they do not want the lots full of broken Defenders in the first month and they are trying to fix the worst carp before starting to sell.

[BogMonster]

14 hours ago, Red90 said:

LR math.

90" = 102"
110" = 119"
130" = 119"

 

You forgot "Premium Durability" = "Plastic carp"

Looks like the wheels are mostly 20" which answer lots of questions. In the wrong way.

[neil110]

21 hours ago, Red90 said:

The computer analogy is not relevant.   Computers are standardized and everyone makes the parts to the same specs.  Cars are not.  Everything is custom and proprietary.  In fact, many are moving to encrypted code and communications to prevent people changing things.

Seen that in action, going back to D2. Your D2 does not work? try the ECU from your mate's car. Nah still doesn't work and when you return the ecu to the donor vehicle, neither does that. So now you have 2 immobile vehicles.

I imagine that during the intervening 15 years that has become much more the case.

The case I mentioned about the jaguar, the ECU lived inside the gearbox. So having stripped the gearbox to work out why it would only change up to 2nd for brief periods before going back to 1st, he not only had a slushbox in bits all over the bench but a dead ecu to contend with. He was also a bit of a dab hand with computers and electronics as well. So not like it was beyond his capabilities, but what does it say for the future of that particular model of Jag?

Similarly, a friend was service manager at a LR dealer. They were presented with a RR sport which would go into limp home mode whenever it was presented with a hill whilst towing a caravan. They gave the customer a different vehicle so he could continue his holiday while they tried to fix it. Very long story short. The customer ended up getting a replacement car while the original went back to the factory. Where they couldn't find/fix the fault either.

Is one of the engine options in the new defender really a 400hp 3.0 litre petrol, with 500 Nm torque?

At least all these leaked photos show that LR doesn't seem to have fixed the problems with Defender leaks

Edited June 29, 2019 by neil110

[deep]

On 6/29/2019 at 7:16 AM, reb78 said:

I agree. But why cant they call it something else?!

Because, in the eyes of someone who lives in a glass office, this genuinely is a 21st Century Defender.

 

[landroversforever]

1 hour ago, deep said:

Because, in the eyes of someone who lives in a glass office, this genuinely is a 21st Century Defender.

 

You’ve just got to look at how many of the last few years of defender production are blinged up tarmac queens. 

[reb78]

11 hours ago, landroversforever said:

You’ve just got to look at how many of the last few years of defender production are blinged up tarmac queens. 

I wonder if the prices of real defenders will fall when the new one comes out and the Chelsea Tractor Bling brigade move on to the new version?

[Tanuki]

18 hours ago, neil110 said:

Is one of the engine options in the new defender really a 400hp 3.0 litre petrol, with 500 Nm torque?

Perfectly feasible if it's the electrically-assisted version.

A 'stateside friend has a Lexus LS hybrid: the petrol-part is a 3.5-litre V6. Overall  it produces 415BHP/600NM of torque.  The electric motor gives murderous levels of torque-on-tap-in-a-millisecond;   for a luxury car that weighs over 5000 pounds it has truly indecent acceleration (0-60 in a gnat's whisker more than 5 seconds - and in supreme silence!)

Edited June 30, 2019 by Tanuki

[neil110]

According to the above brochure, the phev version has marginally more power than the pure petrol version. The torque is variable between 439 and 645 Nm (as far as I can make out from the picture.

The next option is the 3.0 litre petrol lump with 400 hp and 500 Nm

[Ex Member]

Yah.  The current 2 liter 4 does 300 hp, 400 Nm....  The 3 liter is simply 2 more cylinders.

The 3 liter Diesel at 300 hp would be a lot nicer to drive.

Edited June 30, 2019 by Red90

[Cynic-al]

It's not just cars that are going down the disposable route, the machines at work now only have a guaranteed spare parts availability of 5 years. Makes you wonder why your buying a quality European machine instead of the cheapest Chinese one you can find.  

The thing you have to remember with the PHEV is that they only deliver maximum power whilst the battery has charge, and the PHEVs tend to have a very small amount of battery capacity, usually around 20 - 30 miles. Once they're flat your usually stuck with something like a 1500cc 3 cylinder petrol which is trying to get you down the road and recharge the batteries. Fine for a traffic light drag race once a day but maybe not so helpful for long uphill towing.

[Naks]

some of cladding has been removed, and apparently it's no slouch on the highway:

[discomikey]

On 6/26/2019 at 3:22 PM, Red90 said:

But, if they want, they can throw on 35s with no mods, drop to 8 psi and tackle the hardest trails with no concerns and little chance of body damage

The new defender has been seen, and well documented, on these hardest US trails in bog standard form. No need for 35's and lower pressure?

On 6/26/2019 at 3:22 PM, Red90 said:

99% of these people never go of road.

correct. which whether we as off road enthusiasts like it or not, drives their concentration to making it extremely good on the tarmac. They seem to be doing so whilst not neglecting the off road ability and requirement to be able to do so (More because of history than actual market demand). Which, to me at least, is quite admirable. 

 

On 6/26/2019 at 3:22 PM, Red90 said:

 In the markets that have real overland use, everyone uses Landcruisers and Patrols

And D4's, which this lines directly up behind by my judgement of the market

On 6/26/2019 at 3:22 PM, Red90 said:

Wheel with them, travel with them, see what is important

I have. Morocco, Spain, France, Portugal, etc. 

 

On 6/26/2019 at 3:56 PM, Red90 said:

making cars that look the same as everything else on the market.

Now that (for the most part) is something I definitely agree with. 

IMHO they made quite the looker with the L494 Range Rover Sport. I really quite like its styling. the Big L405 RR too... But they seem to have latched on to that face, which doesn't suit the other models so well having been squashed, stretched and pulled about to fit. 

I'm actually looking forward to the full unveiling of the new defender. From what I've seen so far it may be the first step away from that Range Rover styling in the last 6-7 years, but built on a platform that to me at least has proven to be more than adequate.

 

[Ex Member]

52 minutes ago, discomikey said:

The new defender has been seen, and well documented, on these hardest US trails in bog standard form. No need for 35's and lower pressure.

No, those were all easy trails.  You barely need four wheel drive to tackle them.

If you do not understand where low pressure is required, then you have no experience on hard off road terrain.

[Bowie69]

Quite keen on the absolutes, @Red90?

[discomikey]

On 6/28/2019 at 10:44 AM, BogMonster said:

TDV6 maintenance is one thing I don't miss having to think about. I'm sure the new Def will be the same, take the body off to change the alternator and stuff like that. Designed to be manufactured and not maintained.

While access in that particular body is yet to be seen. if you look inside a D5 V6D you can practically stand in there with it. Failing that, the subframes with engine and box fitted can be removed from a body in a couple of hours. 

[discomikey]

1 hour ago, Red90 said:

you have no experience on hard off road terrain.

I'll leave you to determine my 'hard off road' experience for yourself. 

[FridgeFreezer]

1 hour ago, Red90 said:

If you do not understand where low pressure is required, then you have no experience on hard off road terrain.

This just in, actual footage of Red90 in action:

 

Only time I've lowered pressures was when I had a nail in my tyre, but then I've never driven anywhere hard

[Ex Member]

1 hour ago, discomikey said:

I'll leave you to determine my 'hard off road' experience for yourself. 

You need to be running below 10 psi and need lockers to give a trail a difficult rating.  If you can drive through on 60 series tyres at road pressures, it is an easy trail.

[Gazzar]

Nah, if you don't need dynamite, a team of Brunel's best navvies and a cannon powered grappling hook, it's an easy trail.

 

"Humour"

 

Sorry. Just thought it was getting a bit domestic in here.

 

*Brunel was the greatest engineer of the Victorian era, in my opinion. 

[LiftedDisco]

I was just about to ‘like’ a whole series of posts, all of which make perfect sense.... then realised @discomikey was responsible...

 

Hahaha... yep, I know you have the experience and knowledge to make such statements!

[Tanuki]

On 7/1/2019 at 12:45 PM, Cynic-al said:

The thing you have to remember with the PHEV is that they only deliver maximum power whilst the battery has charge, and the PHEVs tend to have a very small amount of battery capacity, usually around 20 - 30 miles. Once they're flat your usually stuck with something like a 1500cc 3 cylinder petrol which is trying to get you down the road and recharge the batteries. Fine for a traffic light drag race once a day but maybe not so helpful for long uphill towing.

That may be the case with the likes of first-generation Toyota Aurises etc, but current-generation PHEVs generally come with 150BHP-or-so of combustion-engine assist - which can be run at full-power to recharge the batteries while you're sitting at the lights, so you've got full electric launch-power when the lights turn green.

A friend in Japan who has a Mitsubishi PHEV  because of local  tax/on-road-parking-space-restrictions says that at first it's odd to park-up, lock her car and walk away with the engine still running (because it's recharging the battery after a climb up some twisty gradients before she parked which drained the battery).  She's happy because that wimpy 2-litre petrol engine will mean her battery's fully-charged when she comes back an hour later.

This is the future. Get used to it.