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Jamie_grieve

Thoughts and musings on the new defender

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Missed goodwood out this year, love that show but at least I haven't got to walk past that cammo defender again - seriously LR, you can only keep a drum roll going so long before lifting the curtain, but maybe we'll all be amazed when it's a completely different shape at launch. And has a split screen, external hinges and a rusting rear crossmember 🤣

I wonder if it can match the last & arguably best Defender launch in the early 90s when LR sold 110 station wagons,  with 200tdi engines, galvanised chassis & bulkheads, air con, long range fuel tank, rev counter and four speaker stereo,  velour seats, soundproofing, luxury carpet, bull bars and cubby box.   Unfortunately didn't sell them in the UK though, where it might have been useful 🙄  but I got one 😍

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20 minutes ago, Eightpot said:

 

I wonder if it can match the last & arguably best Defender launch in the early 90s when LR sold 110 station wagons,  with 200tdi engines, galvanised chassis & bulkheads, air con, long range fuel tank, rev counter and four speaker stereo,  velour seats, soundproofing, luxury carpet, bull bars and cubby box.   Unfortunately didn't sell them in the UK though, where it might have been useful 🙄  but I got one 😍

  Which markets did they get sold into ?

cheers

Steve b

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18 minutes ago, steve b said:

  Which markets did they get sold into ?

cheers

Steve b

Only South Africa and Namibia - they'd been galvanising the series vehicles there for a while as well. 

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15 hours ago, RedLineMike said:

 

They have the off-road activity field which myself & a few others are driving in 

It was a good turn out , some impressive bits of kit there .

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6 hours ago, HampshireHog said:

It was a good turn out , some impressive bits of kit there .

Thanks,

It's been a cracking show so far & I'm enjoying getting to run my U4 car in front of a crowd at Goodwood, 😂

 

Looked at the new defender yesterday, 

Then looked at the jeep wrangler Rubicon that was on display, 

 

Looking forward to a nosy through the jeep brochure 😏

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Have to say I'm impressed with a work colleagues Rubicon - factory lockers, BFG MT's on 17" wheels, swaybar disconnects etc. and you can still bolt all sorts of stuff to them. Only the 2.0 petrol but 270bhp and it goes well, although it doesn't sound as good as the old 6's. Really feels like the sort of vehicle I think the Defender should be, but I'm interested to see what the end product actually looks like as I don't think LR are as daft as some think.

Rich

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Posted (edited)

The jeep rubicon is on my to own list! I want to see the gladiator when it comes out. Just a shame they're downsizing engines. 

 

most people realise cars are more hassle than they're worth?

Clearly a city person, I've lived in cities and rural and can completely see where she's coming from for cities but not out of cities. If they want to cut congestion people need to travel less. Go back to more local living. Have vans doing deliveries rather then lots of cars going out. Live near where you work etc. There is a jumbo jet regularly comes into the local airport with produce from Mexico and Africa. If you want to cut the food miles you've got to accept you can't have every food year round, you have to live by the seasons of your area. It's a big lifestyle change. A more realistic aim would be to reduce the miles covered by each family, get them down to one car etc. Separate work and private miles. Charge per mile driven and so on. 

Edited by Cynic-al
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This image has been all over social media for days now. Apparently it was returning from the Goodwood festival of speed. I thought I might as well stick it up here for more conjecture.and whining about it too. There were a few positive comments along the lines of at least they're testing it.

I think it's interesting for a number of reasons.
1. It's sitting up on wheel skates so it's probably safe to assume that the wheels can't easily be turned. Is that most likely to be a diff, transfer or gearbox issue? Electric handbrake?
2. If it can't be towed for whatever reason, how common will the fault be as I can't imagine much in the drivetrain design is going to change before a launch in September. Not being able to tow it could be an inconvenience. Would they be willing to do last minute changes to major components if testing showed a  number of failures or would that just be passed onto warranty claims and extra spare parts made available?
3. What's hanging down underneath? 

I never thought about it before but there are no drive flanges as with a defender which can be quickly and easily pulled off to allow towing if a diff has a problem or for a suspended tow and it doesn't have enough ground clearance to safely crawl under and take off a propshaft. 
I wonder how easily the transfer case can be put in neutral with dead electrics for towing with the wheels on the ground? Will there be a mechanical or electrical only solution?
 

 

Screenshot 2019-07-12 at 01.22.27.png

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Well whatever, it's still all urinating in the wind until they eventually get around to unveiling the damned things and then sheeple start laying out their cash in order to be real world test pilots for and on behalf of JLR. Mind you Defender production ended [after how many years was it?] but the last model was still full of known issues such as gear to transfer box intermediate shaft splines failing just in gereral UK road use etc.

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It's a test vehicle. Perhaps the operational requirements were to recover the vehicle on skates, regardless of fault?

I'm giving them the benefit of doubt, I admit, but it could be the driver was following instructions irrespective of the fault.

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Posted (edited)

It surprises me that Land Rover drive them too and from Goodwood, you'd think the show fleet would go on a truck. Unless their plan is they want it to be seen, photographed, shared etc. And is so why is this poor quality image from a naff angle the only one?

Edited by Cynic-al

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10 hours ago, Happyoldgit said:

Well whatever, it's still all urinating in the wind until they eventually get around to unveiling the damned things and then sheeple start laying out their cash in order to be real world test pilots for and on behalf of JLR. 

They've done close to a million miles of testing, apparently.  How much more would you like them to do before they actually put it on the market?

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1 hour ago, deep said:

They've done close to a million miles of testing, apparently.  How much more would you like them to do before they actually put it on the market?

That's easy: Enough to make the vehicles appear higher up in the reliability ratings.

  • Haha 1

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On 7/12/2019 at 2:09 PM, Gazzar said:

It's a test vehicle. Perhaps the operational requirements were to recover the vehicle on skates, regardless of fault?

I'm giving them the benefit of doubt, I admit, but it could be the driver was following instructions irrespective of the fault.

No, that can be done in a factory building or car park away from cameras.  A public recovery like this is not planned as it will only cause conjecture about reliability.

 

Looking at the photo, the rear wheels look a little splayed, but the ride height looks to be around mid-setting.  I wonder of a suspension arm or mount has broken, particularly on the left side, to allow the wheel out of alignment.  That would explain the skates, too.

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On 7/13/2019 at 12:48 AM, deep said:

They've done close to a million miles of testing, apparently.  How much more would you like them to do before they actually put it on the market?

The RRC EAS was only fitted to do widespread testing before the P38 hit the market.  Some improvements were made, but apparently some were not.  But there is no getting away from the fact that LR used their customers as test mules.  A manufacturer should always learn from their customers’ experiences and use that knowledge to improve the design of current and future models, but it’s quite another thing to cynically put out under-developed systems to test them on customers, especially a system so critical.

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Yes as true Land Rover fans we are, can it be easily loaded onto a flat bed when broken down, is it easy to work on on the hard shoulder and how easily can I strip out major drive train items in said location else it’s not a defender 🙂🙂 🙂 

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My first car was a Fiat Uno ies, they were the last 2 years of production before the punto, I found out when I had a gearbox problem that the ies was a test bed for the punto and had a smaller input shaft on the gearbox. I couldn't get a used gearbox anywhere and ended up using some of my gearbox, some of an older uno gearbox and some of a punto gearbox to get it to work so it's not just land rover who use their customers as a test bed :wacko:

All this testing is a good thing, but it doesn't replicate 10 years of life, but I guess that's why a warranty is 3 years. 

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Posted (edited)

or 5 years from Toyota and 7 years in the case of Kia

Edited by neil110

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Quite ^^^. It baffles me that Kia hasnt cornered the market. Most of their offerings look as good, if not better, than the SUV’s LR are selling!

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The big players are behind on warranty. Isuzu, Mitsubishi and Fiat give 5 years on pickups, 7 years on a Ssangyong, 3 years on a ford and vw :unsure: When I had a ford pickup a lot of the parts were only covered for a year. Confidence inspiring! 

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On 7/14/2019 at 7:17 PM, Snagger said:

The RRC EAS was only fitted to do widespread testing before the P38 hit the market.  Some improvements were made, but apparently some were not.  But there is no getting away from the fact that LR used their customers as test mules.  A manufacturer should always learn from their customers’ experiences and use that knowledge to improve the design of current and future models, but it’s quite another thing to cynically put out under-developed systems to test them on customers, especially a system so critical.

Someone is living in the past!  No worries, it's generally a better place to be...

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On 7/21/2019 at 12:34 AM, deep said:

Someone is living in the past!  No worries, it's generally a better place to be...

😂😂😂

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Seen pictures last night of the test mule rocking steel wheels & tall sidewalls, 

Surely that must appease most of the main doubters 

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