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Jamie_grieve

Thoughts and musings on the new defender

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I'm just not getting that cosy warm feeling that I get when I feel something is good value for money. For a lot less outlay I can buy a 4wd pickup that will enable me to drive in near car like comfort yet carry a load of messy materials out of harm's way in the buck locked away under a canopy if needs be.

I won't be buying another one of JLR's new pseudo Defender offerings just yet.

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I think @Challo hit it on the head there. For me I drive a 110 because it's simply the best all round vehicle. I don't need a Defender but it does suit my lifestyle very well. For the utility companies / agricultural markets simply put there are more focussed better vehicles for the job nowadays.

Quite a few years ago now I looked into a more comfortable car to have alongside the 110 but decided I didn't need (or really have the space) to have two cars. So ironically ended up buying a 3.6TDV8 L322. As Clarkson said "it's all the car you could ever need". The downside for me was tyres. I do enjoy green laning and also go offroad up at the family estate in Scotland. @Retroanaconda remembers me blowing up, literally, (he heard it from inside his 90 behind me) a tyre on the Range Rover. I ended up going through £3.5k of tyres in 3 years... I ended up selling the RR and keeping the Defender because I felt comfier abusing it a bit more and the tyres stood up to what I do regularly better.

There aren't many vehicles that will be a daily driver and then in the middle of the day drive across Scottish mountainsides to collect a deer carcass, or through a Welsh farm to collect firewood / sheep in trouble. My Defender does and I suspect the new one will. It'll just be more comfortable than the original version. So all round yes, just weighted more to the daily driver aspect.

I mean most of the local farms around me actually use Clios, Kias, Fiestas, small Audis etc. They have quads, tractors and lorries for the actual farm work. Even hauling stuff to market they typically hook up the tractor to the trailer. At least that way our neighbour can take more than two cows in the back without worrying about being overweight.

Incidentally most of the utility companies around here still have Defenders in their fleet. When my parents incoming main was being put underground I had a chat with them. All the Defenders run a huge hydraulic winch on the front, not for recovery but for installing cables. Because a lot of their work is in fields they need its off road ability (all the pickups get stuck) and then they use the winch for pulling cables through ditches. If they get stuck it's quicker to ask the farmer for a tow than bother winching out. I'd be curious to see if they get any of the new ones, there's a chap down the road who still has one of the Td5 based vehicles so obviously keeping hold of them.

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Ed Poore said:

Incidentally most of the utility companies around here still have Defenders in their fleet. When my parents incoming main was being put underground I had a chat with them. All the Defenders run a huge hydraulic winch on the front, not for recovery but for installing cables. Because a lot of their work is in fields they need its off road ability (all the pickups get stuck) and then they use the winch for pulling cables through ditches. If they get stuck it's quicker to ask the farmer for a tow than bother winching out. I'd be curious to see if they get any of the new ones, there's a chap down the road who still has one of the Td5 based vehicles so obviously keeping hold of them.

It is the same here - a mate of mine works for UKPN and he says they have kept a proportion of thier now ageing Defender fleet for the difficult stuff where the Ford/Mitsi/etc pickups get stuck but they only get them out when they have to as they know they can't buy anymore.

 

They have also had issues with cherry pickers on the non Land Rover pickups as the chassis is not as strong (No Nissan Navara jokes...) nd a lot of them crack due to the weight/stress of the cherry picker

 

As per my comment above - I'm not sure a chassis cab will be possible without a chassis?!

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By all accounts JLR sold four new offenders every minute after the unveiling, seems the metrosexuals are awash with cash . The bit that tickled me was ... the iconic 4x4 was scrapped in 2016 after 68 years but has been resurrected tough , trendy , hi-tech and as a hybrid 

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I am sure this will become a great car, bought in large numbers by the lifestyle types.

However the price alone, well I know the base models aren't so far off what a late model Old Defender cost new, is a big barrier for many people, especially those that want it to work for a living.

My mother (now aged 78) has had a Ninety, and two Defender 110s, then moved to a FL2, and now has a Discovery Sport, all as her daily farm vehicle. Aside from the lesser towing capacity the latter two have been quite up to the job, more comfortable to drive, and a darned sight cheaper to buy and operate than the last Defenders. 

The FL2 was excellent as a farm car, the only real annoyance being the wretched parking sensors that go nuts when driving through  long grass. With a set of seat covers it survived winters of wet and muddy coats, dogs and sheep, and a lot of towing, gaining numerous battle scars along the way.  The jury is still out on the Disco Sport but it's doing OK so far.
However the new Defender is a lot of money to spend of something that will get neglected and abused, when lesser, cheaper models are capable enough.

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21 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

G-Wagen I guess they've benefited from it being more modern and robust to start with and they just keep shoe-horning bigger engines / more leather / ugly trim into them without having to make major changes to the platform. Notice the new Defender can come with near 400hp, yet LR shied away from going anywhere near that with the old platform (apart from those few limited-edition very-breathed-on ones) which says a lot about the new setup Vs the old one.

The new G-wagon is a totally new design, but Mercedes is a lot bigger than LR. Mercedes asked the engineers to make sure the sound of shutting the doors on the new G was the same as on the old. :blink: 

I kinda like the new Defender. It will be a good replacement for my Disco 4.

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some under-the-skin photos:

attachment.php?attachmentid=540471&stc=1

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attachment.php?attachmentid=540474&stc=1

attachment.php?attachmentid=540475&stc=1

attachment.php?attachmentid=540476&stc=1

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attachment.php?attachmentid=540478&stc=1

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=540479&stc=1

 

...Land Rover says the Defender’s chassis is three times stiffer than the next best in market, and can withstand a 6.5-tonne recovery load and 7.0-tonne vertical load through the suspension...

 

...all the handles and internal structures are designed to be as tough as the car. Collins claims if you leave the car in neutral you can push it forward with the grab handle on the instrument panel...

 

...The 815mm wheel diameter for the 18-inch wheel is designed for extreme off-roading when required (Collins says you can drive up a big sand dune in Dubai without lowering the tyre pressures) ...

 

... Collins says you can drive up a 45-degree slope thanks to the strongest driveshafts ever deployed on any Land Rover.

 

...The brakes are no longer physically connected to the master cylinder, now the pedal connects to the actuator which controls a piston-driven hydraulic system. Collins says it produces far more precise and linear brake pressures on-road and allows the traction control system to work better on-road. The system can brake each wheel individually in 150ms from when slip is detected...

 

https://www.caradvice.com.au/791472/2020-land-rover-defender-engineering/

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OOO yellow bits :D

There is a lego version too, £160... so I can't afford that one either :blink:

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Right now down to practicalities it is a Land Rover for the 21st Century so it it going to have 21st Century problems. How long before it breaks down because it doesn't have a Wifi connection. 🤣🤣🤣

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just watched the unveiling video from Frankfurt motor show [it's on youtube] 

McGovern keeps mentioning 'reductive & verticality' what the heck is that all about, why not just say the design is modern more space inside & the rear end is vertical just the same as the original Series/90/110/defender 

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41 minutes ago, western said:

McGovern keeps mentioning 'reductive & verticality' what the heck is that all about, why not just say the design is modern more space inside & the rear end is vertical just the same as the original Series/90/110/defender 

Glad I’m not the only one that was irked by the constant ‘non-English’ - what on earth was all that carp about???

 

I’m also sick and tired of folks moaning about the costs of the New Defender - yep, the launch versions are a tad on the pricey side, but they are suggesting they are going to be ‘from £40k’ and there’s a general wailing and rending of clothes that this is ‘too much...’

 

I’ve been fortunate enough to look at various vehicles recently, and guess what, these prices are in keeping with the rest of the car industry - it doesn’t matter if you go Volvo, Merc or Audi, they are still super spendy!  We’ve just picked up a Jag F—Pace (on Privilege Scheme, so super discounted) and it’s still not a cheap car...

 

Good luck JLR - I’ll nail my colours to the mast... I like it and could well be ordering one when the Commercials come out...

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12 hours ago, reb78 said:

What would you drive at the weekend? Because I presume you mean you would have to talk to the wife because the 'DC100' is in the dealers having an electrical fault chased under warranty....? 

Maybe you'll be spending the weekend shivering and shaking, waiting for the (now regular) Monday visit to the shrink, because you wanted to engage low ratio, diff lock, suspension lifted and also open the driver's window - but the computer repeatedly yells at you, telling you "that option is not available in this mode".  

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Is it just me or does anyone else also think the 110 looks right, but the 90 looks completely wrong?

Oh, and 18" wheels🙄

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I can't help noting the very appropriate title to this thread, as I have spent a few hours thinking and musing about the new Defender.  My thoughts and musings took me to an interesting place.  It works like this:

If my boss was to replace my awful, ageing but doggedly dependable Mitsubishi work car (which is 21 years old and looks amazingly similar to the new Defender) with a new "90" or "110", I'd be ecstatic.

If I was buying myself, no way on God's earth would I get one of these!

At first, I thought I might.  Genuine steel wheels with a useful tyre size.  You can have three seats in the front.  A proper "roo bar" option, according to the Aussies.  Decent luggage capacity.  An optional, less vulnerable front end and wheel arch (and paint!) protection.  You don't even have to have the silly daytime lights.  It all looked good, until I read the brochure and some commentary.  Every piece of electronic frippery imaginable may have it's place on a trendy town car but a working vehicle which has fly by wire braking and its towbar controlled by a touchscreen  is insanity.  There is just no attempt at simple, mechanical design at all.  No coil spring option on the 110.  The only diesel engine options are tiddlers (what happened to the rumoured six cylinder?).

It will be a great car and, at the same time, a bitter disappointment to those of us who have, for decades, enjoyed a basic, solid, functional vehicle.  I'm quite split - I hope they sell well, while knowing I will have to make sure my 110 lasts as long as the allows it on the road.  Heavy sigh.

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On 9/10/2019 at 3:55 PM, Anderzander said:

Seems odd though as the Jimny and G Wagon have had recent significant change - I’d have thought that they would need fresh approval after that degree of change.

 

1775465D-960B-44BB-AFD1-7D524C7AE19E.jpeg

The 110x starts at £78k

YG15OET-used-DACIA-DUSTER-ESTATE-1.6-Acc

Forgive me for the comparison, but it has clues from the Duster. They definitely looked at the wheels; You can have a new Duster for 10K, and not surprisingly, they get a big following, and gets used for off roading quite a bit.

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1 hour ago, deep said:

(what happened to the rumoured six cylinder?)

image.thumb.png.583d542ae4f5e38596ab457315702bc5.png

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I like the look of the bare monocoque - looks very well designed. 

Now all they had to do from that point was hang some series door bottoms on it, rubber wheel arches and a couple of vinyl seat squabs - job done.

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34 minutes ago, Escape said:

I don't think this was posted here yet. I'd say it's pretty much bang on the money, and echoes/counters a lot of what has been said here:

https://www.evo.co.uk/opinion/22767/it-s-time-everyone-woke-up-to-the-fact-that-the-new-land-rover-defender-needs-to?amp

 

yep, he nailed it!

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Great piece of writing - lots of truth in it, but I don’t think he nailed it.

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14 hours ago, Daan said:

Is it just me or does anyone else also think the 110 looks right, but the 90 looks completely wrong?

No, I find that too - the silver 110 could almost be a "proper" defender from a distance in some of the shots in the videos with the silhouette, but the 90 looks like an accident between a D3 and a Transit Connect somehow.

Also, that Evo article hits the nail on the nipple.

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