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Thoughts and musings on the new defender


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15 hours ago, deep said:

is 400 horsepower really not enough??!!

in a defender 90, you wouldn't want a great deal more.

In something longer, or with modern chassis and suspension engineering you can get used to much more!

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8 hours ago, RedLineMike said:

nope

once youve owned 400hp for over a week it feels slow

You have a 400 horse power Defender??  Wow.  I have a 200 horse power car which is half the size and it's easily fast enough.  No hill too steep, no passing opportunity wasted etc..

At the risk of offending a minority, crazy horsepower figures in a vehicle designed to do really well off road brings too many compromises and isn't smart.  Get a muscle car.

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18 hours ago, discomikey said:

in a defender 90, you wouldn't want a great deal more.

In something longer, or with modern chassis and suspension engineering you can get used to much more!

114" wheelbase can sometimes feel short

 

11 hours ago, deep said:

You have a 400 horse power Defender??  Wow.  I have a 200 horse power car which is half the size and it's easily fast enough.  No hill too steep, no passing opportunity wasted etc..

At the risk of offending a minority, crazy horsepower figures in a vehicle designed to do really well off road brings too many compromises and isn't smart.  Get a muscle car.

i have 400hp in a jeep that weighs 2200kg with 14" front wheel travel & 16" rear wheel travel,

400hp is not enough 450/475 would probably be the sweet spot

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13 hours ago, deep said:

At the risk of offending a minority, crazy horsepower figures in a vehicle designed to do really well off road brings too many compromises and isn't smart.  Get a muscle car.

I remember Jez saying that once (but only once) he did find Mouse bogging down and felt he'd like a few more horses...

400hp in a 2-ton car still isn't that crazy, the SVR Rangey is a beast but plenty of sports cars will show it a clean pair of heels without being considered insane.

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I found a problem with the tdi offroad and what was much better with the v8 was the acceleration. By this I don't mean the 0-60 I mean you come to the bottom of a steep hill going over rough terrain at a walking pace and you want to get a bit of speed to the wheels to get up the hill. The v8, despite having poor bhp per cc and litre of fuel, gave you power across the whole rev range and you could get a bit of momentum quite quickly by being in a longish gear. The TDi had to be on the turbo to get that push and the available rev range between turbo coming in and running out of revs was quite narrow, you couldn't change gear on the hill and would often fail due to either lack of wheel speed due to too low gear or losing power due to revs dropping off the bottom of the turbo due to too high gear. 

I find this is the same with modern downsized engines. The 2 litre may well have 200bhp on paper but the power band is so narrow it's lost its driveability. That's why they are going for the 10 gear quick shift automatics, to try to give it enough ratios to use the narrow power band when accelerating and keep the revs as low as possible for economy when driving. 

Due to this I don't find you can take any notice of quoted max power in car adverts, you have to drive the thing to see how well it's setup. 

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7 hours ago, RedLineMike said:

114" wheelbase can sometimes feel short

 

i have 400hp in a jeep that weighs 2200kg with 14" front wheel travel & 16" rear wheel travel,

400hp is not enough 450/475 would probably be the sweet spot

"jeep" 😂

5 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

I remember Jez saying that once (but only once) he did find Mouse bogging down and felt he'd like a few more horses...

400hp in a 2-ton car still isn't that crazy, the SVR Rangey is a beast but plenty of sports cars will show it a clean pair of heels without being considered insane.

You can find yourself applying all 567BHP of a SVR engined bulldog on desert tracks! I wouldn't want to do that in a 90 though!

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My only gripe with the Tdi/Td5/Most OM Engines/Isuzu B engines ect is the lack of rev range - too much torque too soon. removes the ability to skate over stuff, you just bury in.

TBO, I prefer smaller high revving lumps. In my Suzuki days, running Twin Cam variations of the 1340/1600 lumps, with the rev limiter set to 8k was not only fun, but successful in most off road conditions. My Swift Sport is hilarious and revs willingly past 7k, you just run out of gears. The new Jimny is the dogs hairy bullocks 

 

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4 hours ago, Cynic-al said:

I found a problem with the tdi offroad and what was much better with the v8 was the acceleration. By this I don't mean the 0-60 I mean you come to the bottom of a steep hill going over rough terrain at a walking pace and you want to get a bit of speed to the wheels to get up the hill. The v8, despite having poor bhp per cc and litre of fuel, gave you power across the whole rev range and you could get a bit of momentum quite quickly by being in a longish gear. The TDi had to be on the turbo to get that push and the available rev range between turbo coming in and running out of revs was quite narrow, you couldn't change gear on the hill and would often fail due to either lack of wheel speed due to too low gear or losing power due to revs dropping off the bottom of the turbo due to too high gear. 

I find this is the same with modern downsized engines. The 2 litre may well have 200bhp on paper but the power band is so narrow it's lost its driveability. That's why they are going for the 10 gear quick shift automatics, to try to give it enough ratios to use the narrow power band when accelerating and keep the revs as low as possible for economy when driving. 

Due to this I don't find you can take any notice of quoted max power in car adverts, you have to drive the thing to see how well it's setup. 

Absolutely!  That's why I'd prefer even  a 2,286 petrol over a Tdi.  We'll have to see how these new Land Rovers work out but I'd imagine the little engines will badly need that eight speed box. Not sure about the three litre.  400 h.p. is still quite a bit, though I understand that is only a "temporary" output due to a battery-powered supercharger and the engine may well be very flexible.

To the show-offs: I've driven 400+ h.p. cars.  Yes, you can get used to it.  Big deal.  It's still way more than adequate for a Defender.  Save it for your big tyred off road toys.

What's a Jeep?

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So what about all this horsepower. Don't you all know torque gets you there, power keeps you there. I'll admit torque and power are typically related but I'll be honest the biggest benefit of the TDV8 when I owned it was the bottom end torque rather than the top end power.

But more of both is definitely better.

:scared:

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I'm reserving judgement until I see Her Majesty driving one. She's had quite a few decades of driving 88/109/90/110/Defender, Range-Rovers etc around Windsor, Balmoral and Sandringham - sometimes frightening Middle-Eastern royalty with her speed (and them not really understanding how a mere woman could possibly know how to drive...)

If JLR want to score a marketing coup, I'd suggest despatching a dozen of the new Defenders to each of Windsor/Sandringham/Baqueen.jpg.2ec6c3d66d44fc90dc133cc7cc54da54.jpglmoral.

Fit them with Corgi-guards to the rear and a 'help-handle' on the B-post so Her Majesty can climb aboard with a degree of ease and discretion despite her nine-decades - tell her "we, your humble servants say enjoy yourself!" and let the paparazzi loose!

Edited by Tanuki
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14 hours ago, deep said:

 

To the show-offs: I've driven 400+ h.p. cars.  Yes, you can get used to it.  Big deal.  It's still way more than adequate for a Defender.  Save it for your big tyred off road toys.

What's a Jeep?

🤣🤣

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On 9/18/2019 at 8:09 AM, Tanuki said:



Fit them with Corgi-guards to the rear and a 'help-handle' on the B-post so Her Majesty can climb aboard with a degree of ease and discretion despite her nine-decades - tell her "we, your humble servants say enjoy yourself!" and let the paparazzi loose!

Sadly, her majesty's last corgi died recently.  I guess someone royal will end up in one sooner or later.  Seems inevitable.

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11 hours ago, Anderzander said:

Yes, great news.

i think we are going to have something to look at pretty soon.

 

I'm also looking forward to seeing the Ineos in the flesh. Hopefully it will be more like what we know. Defender to be than LRs replacement! 

Whether or not the project is commercially viable is a different matter, and sadly I am pessimistic.

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