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Jamie_grieve

Thoughts and musings on the new defender

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It does look ghastly doesn't it.

Mo

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I'd still have one if it arrived free... ;) (Can't afford these luxuries otherwise..)

Would be a good touring vehicle I recon, regardless of it's off-road credentials.

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I'd look proper hardcore if I turned up at school to get the kids in that white one :lol: Come on Tarquin and Tulip, lets go get a vegan ice cream from the country club.

Might lose the mudflaps on the kerb though :blink:

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11 hours ago, Snagger said:

Deep, I think you credit their management with too much self discipline, intelligence and humility.  I think the reality is that McGovern has far too much power, that the management as a whole have fallen into the trap of being a lifestyle brand rather than manufacturer, and their arrogance has led them to shun working vehicles and pursue only luxury models.  Such hubris is very common, and it usually catches up with the company.  And it is right now.

You genuinely think the management doesn't bother with extensive market research before committing to major investment??  That would put them at odds with nearly every other large-scale manufacturer.  Is your thinking clouded by intense disappointment?  

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8 hours ago, Mo Murphy said:

It does look ghastly doesn't it.

Mo

Yes and no.  Stick one next to an old Defender and it will look pretty horrible.  Stick one next to a new Range Rover or Disco 5 and it won't look bad.  Stick one next to the new RAV4 my boss rented this week and the new Defender suddenly looks beautiful!

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That is the problem.  The state of modern vehicle styling is horrid.

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On 1/9/2020 at 10:04 PM, deep said:

You genuinely think the management doesn't bother with extensive market research before committing to major investment??  That would put them at odds with nearly every other large-scale manufacturer.  Is your thinking clouded by intense disappointment?  

I’ve seen it in many unrelated companies - the management only ask what they expect positive replies to and only listen to flattering answers. Quite often, the researchers are afraid to tell bad news too, and filter the responses.  Regardless, arrogant managers only hear what they want and always think they can do no wrong, finding excuses for their bad decisions in suppliers, customers, regulators, financial climates and so on, anything but their planning or lack of.

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2 hours ago, Snagger said:

I’ve seen it in many unrelated companies - the management only ask what they expect positive replies to and only listen to flattering answers. Quite often, the researchers are afraid to tell bad news too, and filter the responses.  Regardless, arrogant managers only hear what they want and always think they can do no wrong, finding excuses for their bad decisions in suppliers, customers, regulators, financial climates and so on, anything but their planning or lack of.

 

Governments too.

 

On topic, i quite like the look of it.

 

It certainly beats any other model of JLR's on the market at the moment.

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On 1/9/2020 at 10:30 AM, Mo Murphy said:

It does look ghastly doesn't it.

Mo

No, worse than that. It just looks bland, insipid and derivative

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4 hours ago, Snagger said:

I’ve seen it in many unrelated companies - the management only ask what they expect positive replies to and only listen to flattering answers. Quite often, the researchers are afraid to tell bad news too, and filter the responses.  Regardless, arrogant managers only hear what they want and always think they can do no wrong, finding excuses for their bad decisions in suppliers, customers, regulators, financial climates and so on, anything but their planning or lack of.

Well, that may well happen here and there but the new Defender is clearly the result of chasing a market in preference to adhering to a tradition which is no longer profitable.  It's uncompromisingly aimed at the market I alluded to above.  That sounds like a cold, hard executive decision, rather than any sort of one-man arrogance.  Yes, most of us think they could have done that in a much better (i.e. simpler and more flexible) way but it doesn't matter a jot what we think, of course!

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On 1/15/2020 at 12:03 AM, deep said:

Well, that may well happen here and there but the new Defender is clearly the result of chasing a market in preference to adhering to a tradition which is no longer profitable.  It's uncompromisingly aimed at the market I alluded to above.  That sounds like a cold, hard executive decision, rather than any sort of one-man arrogance.  Yes, most of us think they could have done that in a much better (i.e. simpler and more flexible) way but it doesn't matter a jot what we think, of course!

Only time will tell, but regardless of what I think of the new Defender technically or aesthetically, it’s is certainly competing with the Discovery.  There is no two ways about it - buyers are now confused by the different models within the brands.  I think even a number of us are, as to which models is doing what niche and where the overlaps or better capabilities lay.  But they are not competing with Toyota, Nissan, BMW or Mercedes, which is exactly who they should be competing with.  They have also clearly been playing with ideas they COULD make, rather than SHOULD make, paying no attention to global financial or political trends.  I’d say their management are about as arrogant as they come.

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1 hour ago, Snagger said:

Only time will tell, but regardless of what I think of the new Defender technically or aesthetically, it’s is certainly competing with the Discovery.  There is no two ways about it - buyers are now confused by the different models within the brands.  I think even a number of us are, as to which models is doing what niche and where the overlaps or better capabilities lay.  But they are not competing with Toyota, Nissan, BMW or Mercedes, which is exactly who they should be competing with.  They have also clearly been playing with ideas they COULD make, rather than SHOULD make, paying no attention to global financial or political trends.  I’d say their management are about as arrogant as they come.

As bad as the Rover management in the sixties who sink a fortune into jet cars, while the dealers were crying out for V8 series and the engineers were designing direct injection turbo diesel engines in a shoe string?

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No idea, will this link work, https://www.facebook.com/TVzebra/videos/2580729962254577/ nor will someone understand it - there is a short recap:

New Defender arrived in a dealership in Riga, Latvia, and journalist asks the representative, would he drive the New Defender in the mud? The reply - If I had another 5 milion euros on account, then, yes. The second question - what he would drive in the mud? The response: Dacia Duster:):):)

 

Makes me smile:)

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another video from the US launch:

 

 

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I’m going to a “launch event” in Sheffield next week. I don’t suppose there will be any sand or mud but I’ve received an invitation and have the time to enjoy the drinks and nibbles that will undoubtedly be provided. 

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Great wheel travel on the last pic , in that situation how can the driver have any feel for the terrain if it's going to be that stiff ? At some point it will change balance and land the front wheel and lift the back off in one sudden lurch of over a metre on that particular picture.

 The test would be more appropriate in Fortnum & Masons carpark with a demo on how quick the staff can load your weekly vegan shopping.........

Hohum

 

Steve b

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Those videos featuring the multi vehicle convoy drives featuring lots of shots of soft handed trendies are certainly a real indicator of their target market types. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Red90 said:

Wow, the wheel travel is horrid.

If that back wheel is fully compressed and the front is fully extended ..... it must have about 4” of travel? 😳

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Similar to the Freelander ?

Freelander 3 ?

A worthy successor ? I think not.

 

Mo

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12 hours ago, steve b said:

Great wheel travel on the last pic , in that situation how can the driver have any feel for the terrain if it's going to be that stiff ? At some point it will change balance and land the front wheel and lift the back off in one sudden lurch of over a metre on that particular picture.

 The test would be more appropriate in Fortnum & Masons carpark with a demo on how quick the staff can load your weekly vegan shopping.........

Hohum

 

Steve b

 

10 hours ago, Red90 said:

Wow, the wheel travel is horrid.

At this point we and quite a few others get to smugly say "we told you so" to all those who wouldn't or couldn't understand that this would be the case.
All the words we used, and there was probably more than a thousand, really don't tell it like that picture of articulation. I dare say there's a mode that will eventually allow the air from one airbag to the next via the tiny air pipes if you went slow enough or stopped to pose.
I thought I was over how disappointed I am with it but apparently not. I had a look at the local dealer when they had one in. The wobbly door handles, no recovery or external jacking points with vulnerable low hanging components and really plastic front end just didn't do it for me on the one I saw. 
I do think it's probably the best Discovery ever made and despite not actually being an off roader under the skin I think will make a fantastic tow barge with the right engine. It's definitely got the potential to be useful for many people.

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18 hours ago, Red90 said:

Wow, the wheel travel is horrid.

 

Indeed. I mean, look at the amazing wheel travel on my 90:

7r_ku8b5KjSXx2gPS7IfiU3MIO903Ffxv4Fwpaj-nzMMK_dCyOMDpQ8njIcGpDZNUPjGxPsIW37Jn-Xpms05sYsfuHUdNOT61dz9BonqOSNWB0D5f25VSr3wH45Br_TBW7g5bbtVeJ21zc2_Sa2sE7O71FvDqMTImx-K1303GmKu2kCDP54uPlmqeOBxj4NzikqKQMAc-ELAvlJuWrONChkYFfKkwZNLa-VISrFN6hr8AAtTu8KYwU8J6M6WHNEwCw9ypZkl0E2dydwGkMpEVnA5ICIt2r_AhjcovHrLG-pT23kMZ4DAVWrLA8aDaorZ5cRk7HMFopS9J_6RlOcRrlQeFqGqEeynv7aBPgIlZfIskVFmbOavtr85lbEB20nlKiHdY1YFIQKskuphEH2_OHdp0IDB15bj-aruHHw6dVyNLz59ycscwzEqM9gV9DdY0hB89ZImsi4keBNNKnNAFq9KVlP3gNxj6wG3BL9vAPs_likcDVl5YIc0OwHsp-bpELkgUdOi9UVyvv1-z7m0UPSNnbLbIaU696HP2WCjxsR8Jun8Mz1opSk-YQVbVCO8wutVNgeAlgQZelxad1mO0q8XGvUg7YmqCyqALt0sU13sxvrW7ThL9m_yFHxM_v9rgcEfLC_XFspNSR-WACNAjmJB9woFj_iSPl8Nacz-YtXS6ntzPfRz1SY=w1467-h975-no

 

 

 

Edited by Naks
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18 hours ago, Mo Murphy said:

Similar to the Freelander ?

Mo

Yes, in that it has a wheel in each corner.  Otherwise not very much at all.

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