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Thoughts and musings on the new defender


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I disagree Deep, Freelander is exactly where it's aimed, this drops into the gap in the range so recently vacated.

It's the Freelander 3 with a Defender badge.

Mo

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6 hours ago, Naks said:

 

Indeed. I mean, look at the amazing wheel travel on my 90:

7r_ku8b5KjSXx2gPS7IfiU3MIO903Ffxv4Fwpaj-nzMMK_dCyOMDpQ8njIcGpDZNUPjGxPsIW37Jn-Xpms05sYsfuHUdNOT61dz9BonqOSNWB0D5f25VSr3wH45Br_TBW7g5bbtVeJ21zc2_Sa2sE7O71FvDqMTImx-K1303GmKu2kCDP54uPlmqeOBxj4NzikqKQMAc-ELAvlJuWrONChkYFfKkwZNLa-VISrFN6hr8AAtTu8KYwU8J6M6WHNEwCw9ypZkl0E2dydwGkMpEVnA5ICIt2r_AhjcovHrLG-pT23kMZ4DAVWrLA8aDaorZ5cRk7HMFopS9J_6RlOcRrlQeFqGqEeynv7aBPgIlZfIskVFmbOavtr85lbEB20nlKiHdY1YFIQKskuphEH2_OHdp0IDB15bj-aruHHw6dVyNLz59ycscwzEqM9gV9DdY0hB89ZImsi4keBNNKnNAFq9KVlP3gNxj6wG3BL9vAPs_likcDVl5YIc0OwHsp-bpELkgUdOi9UVyvv1-z7m0UPSNnbLbIaU696HP2WCjxsR8Jun8Mz1opSk-YQVbVCO8wutVNgeAlgQZelxad1mO0q8XGvUg7YmqCyqALt0sU13sxvrW7ThL9m_yFHxM_v9rgcEfLC_XFspNSR-WACNAjmJB9woFj_iSPl8Nacz-YtXS6ntzPfRz1SY=w1467-h975-no

 

 

 

Yes, your 90's travel is horrid as well.  At least it is easy enough to fix that.  There is nothing you can do with a short arm independent suspension.

Edited by Red90
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Stolen from the comments in the Sunday Times following Clarkson's review of the new diesel G-Wagen:-

 

 "I’d have loved to have wished to buy the new Defender but it doesn’t know what it is; it is neither practical (you wouldn’t throw a sheep in it) nor luxurious (you wouldn’t throw a supermodel in it), so what is the new Defender other than a Disco Sport with great hindquarters but not much else?"

 

Well, it made me laugh, anyway.

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3 hours ago, jeremy996 said:

Stolen from the comments in the Sunday Times following Clarkson's review of the new diesel G-Wagen:-

 

 "I’d have loved to have wished to buy the new Defender but it doesn’t know what it is; it is neither practical (you wouldn’t throw a sheep in it) nor luxurious (you wouldn’t throw a supermodel in it), so what is the new Defender other than a Disco Sport with great hindquarters but not much else?"

 

Well, it made me laugh, anyway.

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That's so ironic.  It would equally have described that G-Wagen.  Not that either have great hindquarters...

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5 hours ago, Mo Murphy said:

I disagree Deep, Freelander is exactly where it's aimed, this drops into the gap in the range so recently vacated.

It's the Freelander 3 with a Defender badge.

Mo

No it's not.  It absolutely is not.  Freelander is a single gearbox, front-wheel drive biased, small-wheeled, low ground clearance and fairly small car with moderately good off-road capabilities.  New Defender is altogether larger, tougher and much more off-road capable by design and has a proper four-wheel-drive system.  Why do people persist with such foolishness?

 

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"absolute wheel travel" is all very well as a static measurement, but you need to also understand and acknowledge the dynamic aspect - "if the wheel is slammed up to the bump-stop, how quickly does it recover in rebound? If a wheel gets dropped from load-bearing, how quickly does it reach full-droop, and then when it is re-loaded, how quickly does it yield to the load? And while all this is going on, what is the transmission's intelligence doing to distribute torque/manage wheelspin?"

What "works" when crawling over rocks at 2MPH is entirely different to what happens when you drop an inside-front-wheel into a pothole while doing 60MPH and towing a 3.5-ton trailer [I'll happily sacrifice slow-off-road ability in exchange for all the transmission/suspension-smarts that stop me leaving buttock-clench-ridges in the seat-trim in the fast-towing-wheel-drop situation].

If you want crazy off-road ability - buy a UNIMOG. If you want a vehicle that will happily keep-up with motorway-speed traffic while towing a few tons, the current LR product-portfolio makes sense [or follow my lead and buy a "Commercial" Toyota LandCruiser, which I really think is the logical VAT-deductible business-sensible successor to the Defender. There are some great discounts available, for example via "Mole Valley Farmers".]

Edited by Tanuki
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45 minutes ago, deep said:

No it's not.  It absolutely is not.  Freelander is a single gearbox, front-wheel drive biased, small-wheeled, low ground clearance and fairly small car with moderately good off-road capabilities.  New Defender is altogether larger, tougher and much more off-road capable by design and has a proper four-wheel-drive system.  Why do people persist with such foolishness?

 

If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck ...

Mo

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2 hours ago, deep said:

That's so ironic.  It would equally have described that G-Wagen.  Not that either have great hindquarters...

G wagon is well ahead of the new defender, and even the old one! Difflock a all round for a start!

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Just now, landroversforever said:

G wagon is well ahead of the new defender, and even the old one! Difflock a all round for a start!

But at what cost? £91,650 or £143,520. The G-Wagen price makes even a blinged-up new Defender look almost sensible. (I'm waiting for the LR commercial variants as I'm NOT spending £50k on a work vehicle).

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17 hours ago, Red90 said:

Yes, your 90's travel is horrid as well.  At least it is easy enough to fix that.  There is nothing you can do with a short arm independent suspension.

 

You've completely missed the point... That is a bog-standard Defender, and the wheel travel is about the same as the new one.

Unless you're going to be doing serious competitions, a bog-standard Defender is all you will need.

Same as @Tanuki, a bit of rock-crawl compromise for better road holding when doing 80kmh on gravel all day long for weeks would be a major safety improvement. I know that doesn't apply to your little island, but bigger markets have vast distances that people want to cover in comfort and safety.

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On 1/20/2020 at 7:44 AM, Naks said:

 

Indeed. I mean, look at the amazing wheel travel on my 90:

7r_ku8b5KjSXx2gPS7IfiU3MIO903Ffxv4Fwpaj-nzMMK_dCyOMDpQ8njIcGpDZNUPjGxPsIW37Jn-Xpms05sYsfuHUdNOT61dz9BonqOSNWB0D5f25VSr3wH45Br_TBW7g5bbtVeJ21zc2_Sa2sE7O71FvDqMTImx-K1303GmKu2kCDP54uPlmqeOBxj4NzikqKQMAc-ELAvlJuWrONChkYFfKkwZNLa-VISrFN6hr8AAtTu8KYwU8J6M6WHNEwCw9ypZkl0E2dydwGkMpEVnA5ICIt2r_AhjcovHrLG-pT23kMZ4DAVWrLA8aDaorZ5cRk7HMFopS9J_6RlOcRrlQeFqGqEeynv7aBPgIlZfIskVFmbOavtr85lbEB20nlKiHdY1YFIQKskuphEH2_OHdp0IDB15bj-aruHHw6dVyNLz59ycscwzEqM9gV9DdY0hB89ZImsi4keBNNKnNAFq9KVlP3gNxj6wG3BL9vAPs_likcDVl5YIc0OwHsp-bpELkgUdOi9UVyvv1-z7m0UPSNnbLbIaU696HP2WCjxsR8Jun8Mz1opSk-YQVbVCO8wutVNgeAlgQZelxad1mO0q8XGvUg7YmqCyqALt0sU13sxvrW7ThL9m_yFHxM_v9rgcEfLC_XFspNSR-WACNAjmJB9woFj_iSPl8Nacz-YtXS6ntzPfRz1SY=w1467-h975-no

 

 

 

I find it hard to compare that to the new picture -the back left wheel on yours looks to be carrying less weight than in the other pic - and not be fully compressed. 
 

Is that with ARB’s on? (I can’t make it out) my Td5’s articulated like that with them on  - disconnecting them made an improvement.

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I have ARB's front and rear and under loaded situations they do not restrict flex much at all but do offer stability on road etc. It's always going to be a case of one thing will compromise another.. Nothing will ever be amazing off-road, climbing rocks and immediately the best mannered road vehicle.

Each of us choose a compromise.

Flex.jpg.222f82d66a0976f3a55061096abdb490.jpg

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13 hours ago, landroversforever said:

G wagon is well ahead of the new defender, and even the old one! Difflock a all round for a start!

Um having seen a G Wagon offroad they are good but they NEED those diff locks because the standard articulation is poor compared to a Defender.

The OG Defender compromises the on road handling by increased articulation but keeps costs down by not fitting lockers as the vast majority of users don't need them. G Wagons improved on road handling with stiffer suspension but compromised off road as a consequence but because they are viewed as a high end product they can afford to fit lockers as standard to compensate.

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14 hours ago, landroversforever said:

G wagon is well ahead of the new defender, and even the old one! Difflock a all round for a start!

G Wagens have difflocks because they have even less articulation than is being ridiculed here - I saw one on the twist-off ramp at a show once, it was significantly out-twisted by an old 109 on stock leaves.

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7 hours ago, Naks said:

 

You've completely missed the point... That is a bog-standard Defender, and the wheel travel is about the same as the new one.

Unless you're going to be doing serious competitions, a bog-standard Defender is all you will need.

Same as @Tanuki, a bit of rock-crawl compromise for better road holding when doing 80kmh on gravel all day long for weeks would be a major safety improvement. I know that doesn't apply to your little island, but bigger markets have vast distances that people want to cover in comfort and safety.

Something wrong with your 90.  See my avatar.  That is a stock 90 and what the wheel travel should look like.

And, FYI, I don't live on a little island....  I don't even live on a big island, although I did for a few years. I'll guarantee nothing is better on gravel at high speed than my Defenders.

Edited by Red90
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7 hours ago, Naks said:

 

You've completely missed the point... That is a bog-standard Defender, and the wheel travel is about the same as the new one.

Unless you're going to be doing serious competitions, a bog-standard Defender is all you will need.

Same as @Tanuki, a bit of rock-crawl compromise for better road holding when doing 80kmh on gravel all day long for weeks would be a major safety improvement. I know that doesn't apply to your little island, but bigger markets have vast distances that people want to cover in comfort and safety.

you could always fit something like this.

https://foundry4x4.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=76

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1 hour ago, Red90 said:

Something wrong with your 90.  See my avatar.  That is a stock 90 and what the wheel travel should look like.

And, FYI, I don't live on a little island....  I don't even live on a big island, although I did for a few years.

 

my bad, I didn't see you live in Canada.

 

"I'll guarantee nothing is better on gravel at high speed than my Defenders."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... Haven't read anything so hilarious in years! Boet, you just made yourself a laughing stock around here. 🤣

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1 hour ago, Happyoldgit said:

is anyone here actually going to order a new Pretender?

In a heartbeat if I could afford it but sadly that will never happen there's a lot of tooing and froing in these 73 pages a lot of slagging and not so much in the way of defence the fact is in MHO that 90% of the modern world want technology in everything after all the new defender is like the new  I phone or androids and I  dont hear many complaining about their latest technolgy I'm going to make an assumption here and apologies if I've got it wrong I think the vast majority of us like to potter on enjoy projects etc and like me at or accelerating past middle age we come from a generation of doers and with all due respect maybe not fully upto speed with the latest tech I think part of the endearment with the land rover brand is we can fiddle, improve and personalise we hate and love them at the same time unfortunately the new generation dont want to do that it's all about the computer side of the world we live in I  have 4 sons and not one of them would be interested in looking in my garage let alone use the resources in there all my equipment is just so much scrap to them and unfortunately that's the reality I  may not like it but  I'm a dinosaur in there world and likely to be extinct in about 20yrs or so I  cant blame landrover wanting to go for that market us dino's will just have to like it or lump it regards Stephen 

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31 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

I'd rather my Audi on gravel any day.

Your Audi would be destroyed in five minutes on the gravel roads here if you tried to drive fast.

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2 minutes ago, Red90 said:

Your Audi would be destroyed in five minutes on the gravel roads here if you tried to drive fast.

You need to define gravel roads better then, because gravel roads does not mean it would destroy a car by assumption.

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1 hour ago, Naks said:

 

my bad, I didn't see you live in Canada.

 

"I'll guarantee nothing is better on gravel at high speed than my Defenders."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... Haven't read anything so hilarious in years! Boet, you just made yourself a laughing stock around here. 🤣

Come on by and bring what you wish.  Try and keep up.  Soft springs, long travel, well tuned shocks.  Have not seen anything that can drive as fast.  Certainly these modern Land Rovers can't.  I spend way too much time waiting for them to catch up.

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1 minute ago, Bowie69 said:

You need to define gravel roads better then, because gravel roads does not mean it would destroy a car by assumption.

Gravel roads have potholes.  If you want to be the fastest, you can't be slowing down for them.  Hell, the gravel major highways here have potholes that will tear off the suspension off your Audi.  Yes, we have major highways that are gravel.

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