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Jamie_grieve

Thoughts and musings on the new defender

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4 hours ago, Cynic-al said:

The advantage I would say is has over the other comparable vehicles, like the nissan quashqai / x-trail, kia sportage / sorrento, ssangyong korando / rexton etc, is the angles the bodywork gives and the 4wd computerisation. 

**pokes and runs away**

"Comparable"???  I guess they all have four wheels and a roof but there is a bit more to it than that...

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Funny, that. Managed to configure a 90 fairly to my liking, but not a single mention of price... can't imagine it being cheap though.

And still no PHEV option, so not really attractive as a company car, because 199g CO² for the base engine.

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Video of the Namibia trip from Leisure Wheels: 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Naks
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The vid makes it look like the Defenders are doing some extreme terrain what with all the slow rock crawling and tottering on two wheels and getting loads of air under the tyres - but to me it doesn't look very safe or stable off road.  A coil sprung Defender wouldn't do that.

That track is hard work (though much harder going uphill 😛) , one of my favourite places in Namibia & done the same stretch a couple of times - the rangie ambulance cruised up it no bother with all four wheels on the floor (half ton of beer & sausage probably helped).  Don't think my wife would have got back in the car if it was doing all that see-sawing..🙂

Old is definitely gold.

 

 

 

nakaoka.jpg

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22 hours ago, Naks said:

Video of the Namibia trip from Leisure Wheels: 

 

 

 

 

Great at speed, makes very hard work of the slow stuff.  I suppose that was a deliberate design decision, sigh.

I am jealous as anything, though.  I'd love to take my own Land Rover through there!

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Interesting though.........   also reminds me that Skoda designed some 'individual' stuff before VW just badge engineered everything. 

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11 hours ago, russianfrog said:

Can you spot the differences? 🤔

 

 

 

 

A handful of big Land Rovers and a little road car with little wheels and no ground clearance (and probably a road-orientated drive system)?  Where do you want us to start?

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40 minutes ago, western said:

Just wondering why we can't just accept the New Defender for what it is, a brand new bang up to date 4x4 that I think will carry the legendary name with pride & turnout to be just as or even more competent & popular than the previous vehicle, let's give it a chance, its not a normal 2 wd road car. LR wouldn't waste all the resources on something that would be a total failure. 

It’s difficult to accept something when it’s trying and claiming to be something it isn’t. I have no issues at all with the actual vehicle. I think it’s great. But I truly hate the fact they have branded it as a Defender. 
 

Therefore it is not carrying on the legendary name at all. Just making a mockery of it. 

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5-stages-of-grief.jpg
 

After acceptance comes boredom - I think that’s where I am now.

No offence intended to the varied and valuable insights I’ve got here - but Land Rover reinvented themselves as a handbag.

This was disappointing - but then I’ve had friends who’ve turned into jerks too, and then it’s been time to move on. I’m no longer friends with Land Rover.

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9 hours ago, Anderzander said:

This was disappointing - but then I’ve had friends who’ve turned into jerks too, and then it’s been time to move on. I’m no longer friends with Land Rover.

That's why I built an ibex. :ph34r: :hysterical:

Oh and have an early 110...

Mike

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11 hours ago, western said:

Just wondering why we can't just accept the New Defender for what it is, a brand new bang up to date 4x4 that I think will carry the legendary name with pride & turnout to be just as or even more competent & popular than the previous vehicle, let's give it a chance, its not a normal 2 wd road car. LR wouldn't waste all the resources on something that would be a total failure. 

Exactly! I'm certainly not a big fan of the new Defender, but that's mainly because I don't like any new car. All the electrickery may make the car perform better and more easy to drive, but also far less engaging so not my cup of tea. I think Land Rover did a pretty good job, considering the market they're aiming for. Even though a better looking Discovery might have a more logical approach, instead of crowding the segment. Still, styling could have been a lot worse. And I have no doubt it will perform very well, surpassing the old Defender off road, depending on the actual terrain.

So I've decided to like it, but am also pretty sure I'll never buy one.

Filip

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2 hours ago, Naks said:

via @theragers: There’s been a drought in Namibia for about 6 years.  Until today.  It all got a bit camel trophy trying to reach camp. #NewDefender


normal_ER-R5w7W4AY251c.jpg
 

I realised this was my favourite photo of the new car because of how it is mostly hidden. Oh dear.

While I normally find the big-revs-splashy-splashy stuff a faux offroading cliche, in this case it's really doing the thing. Impressive. Still can't work out the design of the RAI though.

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16 hours ago, deep said:

A handful of big Land Rovers and a little road car with little wheels and no ground clearance (and probably a road-orientated drive system)?  Where do you want us to start?

I agree! This was just for fun. 

That being said, the Yeti is a rather nice car. I think the boxy design is well done, and it is a decent car to drive. 

Of course, we're missing the scale here. When our Def is parked near a Yeti, it's like comparing a horse with a pony. 

Personally, I think LR did a good job with the new Defender, the most criticised car before anyone saw one for real. I believe this reaction is expected when owners vow a cult-like relationship with such vehicle. Our 110 is entering its 13th year and replacement would be welcome, despite the impeccable maintenance which kept the car almost like new. I wouldn't mind - sometimes- driving with more comfort, safety and speed. The new Defender seems to answer those expectations. After, it's all going to be a question of money. I am also curious about the announced cheaper version. 

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6 hours ago, Naks said:

via @theragers: There’s been a drought in Namibia for about 6 years.  Until today.  It all got a bit camel trophy trying to reach camp. #NewDefender


normal_ER-R5w7W4AY251c.jpg
 

No argument here, the truck is a real Defender. And they seem to stay quite dry inside!

I still wonder, however, if the checkered-plates on the wings can actually withhold anyone standing on them, or if it's just cheap decoration? Anyone got an answer? 

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, russianfrog said:

I still wonder, however, if the checkered-plates on the wings can actually withhold anyone standing on them, or if it's just cheap decoration? Anyone got an answer? 

They are on the bonnet, not the wings.

They must be floating in that picture. Is Land Rover trying to say the truck made it out alive? Do they have no training?

Edited by Red90

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2 hours ago, russianfrog said:

I agree! This was just for fun. 

That being said, the Yeti is a rather nice car. I think the boxy design is well done, and it is a decent car to drive. 

Of course, we're missing the scale here. When our Def is parked near a Yeti, it's like comparing a horse with a pony. 

Personally, I think LR did a good job with the new Defender, the most criticised car before anyone saw one for real. I believe this reaction is expected when owners vow a cult-like relationship with such vehicle. Our 110 is entering its 13th year and replacement would be welcome, despite the impeccable maintenance which kept the car almost like new. I wouldn't mind - sometimes- driving with more comfort, safety and speed. The new Defender seems to answer those expectations. After, it's all going to be a question of money. I am also curious about the announced cheaper version. 

If you want something that drives with more comfort, safety and speed. Land Rover answered this in 1989 with the introduction of the Discovery (or if being really picky, 1970 with the Range Rover). The D3/4 and even the somewhat misguided D5 are still good answers to wanting more on road comfort and cabin space. But that is exactly the reason this new vehicle isn’t a Defender. 
 

Think, if Lotus introduced 4 door, diesel, AWD saloon as the new “Elise”. The resultant car might actually be superb. But it would be no more of an Elise than a bunch of bananas are. 
 

The same is true here. It doesn’t really matter how good or bad this vehicle is. It can never truly be a Defender replacement. Because it hasn’t actually fulfilled the brief on what a Defender is. And doesn’t cater for doing the same things. 

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12 hours ago, Naks said:

via @theragers: There’s been a drought in Namibia for about 6 years.  Until today.  It all got a bit camel trophy trying to reach camp. #NewDefender


normal_ER-R5w7W4AY251c.jpg
 

On the assumption that all the seals, diff breathers, waterproof rated wiring etc. are all doing their job, this is a scenario in which the new Defender will be clearly better than it's leak-prone predecessor!  The extra half ton of weight could help too.  To be fair though, I did something similar several times in one day in a 1987 Range Rover, without a drop of water getting in anywhere and no sign of any water damage years later.  Water resistance has been possible for decades.  IF something did go wrong, however, I'm sure I'd hate the electric windows and handbrake even more when trying to recover it.

Great picture, by the way.  The first I've seen that make the vehicle look genuine.

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21 hours ago, western said:

Just wondering why we can't just accept the New Defender for what it is, a brand new bang up to date 4x4 that I think will carry the legendary name with pride & turnout to be just as or even more competent & popular than the previous vehicle, let's give it a chance, its not a normal 2 wd road car. LR wouldn't waste all the resources on something that would be a total failure. 

A bit of perspective is needed here.  If all you want is a four wheel drive station wagon and don't have plans to own it for decades or maintain or modify it yourself, you could view the new Defender as a replacement for the old one.  If you want a pickup, flat deck, van or cab-and-chassis for your special vehicle, it absolutely isn't!  I am convinced they did their market research and decided the profits would be with the station wagon, to the extent it wasn't worth pursuing any kind of utility vehicle ("suburban" utilities don't count!).  So they use the name for a new range of family cars and some people will love it, while many traditional buyers will feel badly let down and be, understandably, upset.  This disappointment is exacerbated by the all-in move to huge complexity and such impracticalities as a touch screen control centre (eyes off the road, hand getting rocked by the rough track, must be near impossible).

Land Rover could have catered for their former market easily, as Suzuki proved with the fast-selling new Jimny, but the cost-benefit analysis they did stopped them.  I think everyone can accept the new Defender for what it is.  It's what it isn't that is the problem and that is exactly why a proportion of people on a Land Rover forum are very unhappy.  Why would you not expect that?

This has been said many times in previous pages but it was worth summarising again...

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Posted (edited)

87861076_10216181309390415_7648514581471428608_o.jpg.13c498dbc7e31b18a460aa0a72672260.jpg

88183228_10216181310590445_4034586617371951104_n.jpg.808d5d086ba9ce230e0ea2f942a973dd.jpg

 

88316759_10216181310270437_7865693043062472704_n.jpg.7af4871814898d3d82da707fb4cb6366.jpg

Edited by Naks
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4 hours ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

Think, if Lotus introduced 4 door, diesel, AWD saloon as the new “Elise”. The resultant car might actually be superb. But it would be no more of an Elise than a bunch of bananas are.

But if it deployed its optimised Diesel torque, electronics and transmission-technology to put up track-times just as good or better than a 'classic' not-even-clockwork-engined, un-intelligent-suspended, 2WD Elise? Would you still complain?

I'm all in favour of using 21st-century stuff like ABS/traction-control/adaptive-suspension, automatic transmissions, variable-nozzle turbos and the like to make the driving-experience fast-and-easy.

Part of me thinks that some people here would rather have a car that was 'true to its heritage' but would still need you to fiddle with a manual choke and spend minutes trying to get the thing to start if it was cold or wet, and then (if it started before the battery was flat) struggle with hopeless heater/demisters to clear the windscreen.  OK, if you *want* that , it can be simulated in software.

Normal people, however, will happily buy a car that they can jump into when it's -15C, turn the key and have it start in half-a-second, then engage the heated-screen/turn the aircon on, select 'Drive' on the transmission and go about their business for the day.  OK, after collecting the kids from prep=-school, you may want to go and lug a trailer with their ponies in it...

I'm happy to see cars develop to the point where they're 'domestic appliances'.

Normal people don't expect to have to worry about 2WD/4WD levers, high/low ratios or diff-locks.

Get in, sit down, and drive!

 

 

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